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Author Topic: Cooperator herds---how do you compensate them?  (Read 10861 times)

Offline oakbar

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Re: Cooperator herds---how do you compensate them?
« Reply #15 on: October 22, 2008, 09:52:50 PM »
I appreciate all the thought and input you guys have given to this topic.   I knew you'd all provide some good insight.   Fortunately, I'm a few months away from needing to make an exact decision so I'll have some time to think it over.   If anyone else has input I'd like to hear it.  Apparently, its caught the interest of more people than just me.    

I think the breeder should cover all addtional costs(vet, drugs, etc).  I also like the idea of a "premium" over market for the cooperator.   That seems to protect both the cooperator and the breeder.   I might also consider looking at a flat fee for the use of any animals that actually "take" the embryo plus a "premium" over the market.  The sticking points seem to be is if the breeder is committed to taking all the calves(not really for or against--just pondering the possibilities) and, as was mentioned, what happens if a cow dies, has a late abortion, etc.

Again, I appreciate all the input---let's hear more after you've read the posts and given it some more thought!!
Oakbar Ranch
Northwood, IA

oakbar1258@wctatel.net

Offline justintime

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Re: Cooperator herds---how do you compensate them?
« Reply #16 on: October 22, 2008, 10:30:07 PM »
I like the idea of the breeder paying all the costs associated with implanting the recips. as well as paying a premium for the calves at weaning.The owner of the recip herd, has to feel that he is making money... or he will feel like the breeder is taking advantage of him. Like every partnership, each party has to benefit. I for one, feel that you can pay a fair premium as you do not have to maintain a reip herd of your own, which is a major cost. The only catch may be in how much say the breeder will have in how the ET calves are grown out while they are on the recip moms. I guess if the breeder feels that the calves are not being managed properly, he should have an option in the contract that allows him to early wean the calves and take possession of them earlier. ... and I feel a written contract is a must. It does not have to be long and wordy, but it must have the basics on paper and signed by both parties. This will save many hard feelings and disputes.

I have seen calf splits work for both parties as well. I have also seen these splits not work well as well. If the breeder is a " known" herd, with established markets for his calves, he will usually be able to sell his share of the calves for more than the cooperator herd owner. This may not cause problems, but i have seen cases where it has. If you think the split is the best way to go, have the breeder or the cooperator herd owner split the calves into two groups. Whoever does not do the split then gets first pick . This way, no one gets all the better calves in one group.There are many other ways to do this as well, such as alternate picks.

I have been considering using a cooperator herd ( s) as well. The main problem I have is finding cooperator herds close enough to me so that I can watch the calves develop. I think it is important to at least see the calves two or three times through the summer so that you know the calves, and see how they have developed from birth.
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Offline cpubarn

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Re: Cooperator herds---how do you compensate them?
« Reply #17 on: October 22, 2008, 11:02:06 PM »
Oakbar,

I have been told neighbor charges $300 per embryo that settles, plus market price.   If it doesn't settle, no cost. 

Almost tempting, Fancy embryo's and Blue roans???  Takes all the work out of it.

Mark

Offline Doc

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Re: Cooperator herds---how do you compensate them?
« Reply #18 on: October 23, 2008, 06:16:35 AM »
Do you know where Jamie's recips come from ? I've sure got good use out of every one I've gotten from him.

 He has different guys always looking for him, with them coming as a group from an individual.
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Offline fluffer

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Re: Cooperator herds---how do you compensate them?
« Reply #19 on: October 23, 2008, 06:45:44 AM »
My husband did this a few years before we got married.  The People with the embryos paid for all the expenses of putting an embryo in,  then they bought the calves for so much over market price- I don't remember now what that was.  But there was one problem.  The breeding's, he was told, would not be a calving issue.  Well, after we buried 1 cow and her 150 lb calf (biggest calf I have EVER seen) and buried another couple of calves and induced the remaining ones I think he ended up with 2 calves for them.  It was horrible.  And in their defence I do believe they thought those calves would be normal size at birth.  I think you have to cover yourself in case of a death loss.  But that is just something we learned on the job  ;)

Fluffer
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Offline aj

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Re: Cooperator herds---how do you compensate them?
« Reply #20 on: October 23, 2008, 08:29:47 AM »
I don't think commercial guys here would want to mess with the deal. They wouldn't understand it and its just another headache. The big calves and even things like a pha calf would be a disaster I would think. A commercial guy who has like a 45 day calving window isn't going to want to start stringing out calving dates and whatnot. jmo
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Offline mike

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Re: Cooperator herds---how do you compensate them?
« Reply #21 on: October 23, 2008, 08:56:46 AM »
We tried this once and had it all worked out that they would get 200 dollars plus market price on any calves we took and they would keep any we didnt choose plus we paid all the vet and supply bills, the first year we had a sale we just sold first come first serve and had a outstanding bull that we ended up getting over 15,000 right out of his field, well 2 weeks later we received a bill for 1500 dollars for the calf and before the buyer could pick up the calf we had to pay that first, we never had anything in writing and paid the ammount, now I know thats not much compared for what we sold the calf for but that wasnt the deal so if you ever do this I would get everything in writing before you do anything.

Offline wv

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Re: Cooperator herds---how do you compensate them?
« Reply #22 on: October 23, 2008, 09:10:54 AM »
How would you work a deal where you just wanted to A.I. another person's cows and have a pick of the calves?

Offline DBL J1

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Re: Cooperator herds---how do you compensate them?
« Reply #23 on: October 23, 2008, 11:23:37 AM »
I am probably going to try to work with a couple of local friends to use some of their cows as recips next spring.    How do the rest of you compensate your cooperators and what types of agreements do you have?   What things wouldn't you do again?
My deal is that i own the donor and pay for all costs including breeding , collection , transfer and recip set-up . The cooperator provides the recips and bears all costs associated with raising the calves and at weening we split the calves 50/50 . I make the first selection and him second and so on . This fall we have 6 yellow jacket x foreplay calves . 5 heifers and 1 bull .

Offline aj

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Re: Cooperator herds---how do you compensate them?
« Reply #24 on: October 23, 2008, 06:22:46 PM »
Can you synchronize cows for a tranfer without freezing the embryo's(do it direct). I'll admit I am ignorant on the subject.(I'm sure alot of people would agree). Say I furnished 5 cows I owned that weren't world beaters...and the donor....transfer embryo's direct...and if any left over freeze them? When I was a college boy they were doing the (neanderthal) style surgical method. Thanks in advance.
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Offline Doc

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Re: Cooperator herds---how do you compensate them?
« Reply #25 on: October 23, 2008, 06:28:47 PM »
Can you synchronize cows for a tranfer without freezing the embryo's(do it direct). I'll admit I am ignorant on the subject.(I'm sure alot of people would agree). Say I furnished 5 cows I owned that weren't world beaters...and the donor....transfer embryo's direct...and if any left over freeze them? When I was a college boy they were doing the (neanderthal) style surgical method. Thanks in advance.

 That is the best way to do it for highest percentage of eggs taking usually. I try to do it that way when I can but it usually don't work out that way.
A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong
enough to take everything you have.   -- Thomas Jefferson

 

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