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Offline Jenny

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Developing a show bull
« on: February 04, 2008, 08:31:13 AM »
We are hoping to raise a breeding bull that will be competitve in Denver next Jan. or at least look good!

The bulls we saw there this year (Limousin) were weighing 1400 lbs. at 11 monthes of age, had huge scrotal circumferences for that age ((upper 30's, even 40) and had wonderful long hair.

How do you get the bulls to be that big at that young age?  Do we need to shut the calf as soon as he can eat creep and feed the dickens out  him  while letting him stay on the cow or can we wait until weaning time to shut him and feed him heavily?  Also, how much "fudging" of the birthdates are there at large national shows like this?

Thanks for whatever help you can give me!

Offline red

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Re: Developing a show bull
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2008, 08:43:17 AM »
all I know is that when we took a bull to Louisville one year in our class there were 2 distinct groups. Those that were older than listed & those of the correct age. It was pretty apparent judging by their scrotum size which was which. I'm afraid that it is a very common pratice. Hope you can rise above it, keep your bull his correct age.
I'd feed him a good grower. Watch that he doesn't get too fat. Get him semen tested when he's the right age. I'm sure Common Sense has some good tips since they have raised some outstanding bulls. RSC too may have some advice.
Best of luck, it's a tough world in the show ring!

Red
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" Some succeed because they are destined to,
but most succeed because they are determined to."
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Offline Show Heifer

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Re: Developing a show bull
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2008, 09:11:06 AM »
I have raised Limis so might offer this advice:
First off, make sure he has the genetics to grow.  I have found that highly maternal, calving ease bulls, rarely have the grow to get big fast.  (although most catch up later in life).
Limis (I think) are a bit different than other breeds, as they do not get fat at a young age. They put on muscle and grow frame. I have found if you have a prospect, it is best to keep them on the cow and creep with a high quality creep (don't go cheap here!!), and put a high quality mineral in by the creep. After a few weeks, I put a coffee can full of show grower with it. Keep increasing GRADUALLY.
IF feasiable keep the cow and calf in a cool barn with fans, and rinse the calf daily after the calf is about 3 months old. About 2-3 months before the show (Denver or wherever), start rinsing 1-2 times a day, keep under fans, unless your in a cold climate, and switch the feed to a show ration that is LOW in corn (saves the hair) yet high in fat (soybeans) and high in protein (oats). THAT IS IMPORTANT!!!! Don't push him to the point of loose stools and a sour smell, but if you pay attention, you can tell when the calf is hungry enough for more feed. I usually try for 3-4% of body weight.
Again, DO NOT USE A LOT OF CORN, this will not only burn off the hair, but will burn his gut up and make him useless in a pasture breeding situation. This is the down fall in a lot of purebred operations in my opinion!
Remember, genetics play a huge role in ROG and hair!!!
Good luck and if you have any questions, please let me know! 
You had tthe right not display your lack of command of the english language. Too bad you have chosen not to. - Brit, senior student

Offline RSC

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Re: Developing a show bull
« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2008, 09:19:23 AM »
We are hoping to raise a breeding bull that will be competitve in Denver next Jan. or at least look good!

The bulls we saw there this year (Limousin) were weighing 1400 lbs. at 11 monthes of age, had huge scrotal circumferences for that age ((upper 30's, even 40) and had wonderful long hair.

How do you get the bulls to be that big at that young age?  Do we need to shut the calf as soon as he can eat creep and feed the dickens out  him  while letting him stay on the cow or can we wait until weaning time to shut him and feed him heavily?  Also, how much "fudging" of the birthdates are there at large national shows like this?

Thanks for whatever help you can give me!
If you really work at you can get the weight withought having to adjust the age.  I am sure there are others that can give you better advice but I will throw out a few ideas.  First and foremost, do not skip anything from a health management standpoint.  The Breeder that bought Doc, went almost overboard to cross the T's and dot the I's from a health preventative standpoint.  From worming/pouring pretty often to vacinations and adding meds during stress.  With today's genetics if you keep him healthy, you will get him to grow.

I personally would start out with creep right away.  I personally like a pelleted high protien creep.  Be carefull not to use a high grain creep early on, you don't want them to get to fat and limit his potential.  High protien creep should help you put muscle mass on the calf.  At around 120-150 days of age I would start on a traditional diet and start partial weening the calf.  Letting the calf back with the cow once a day will help to minimize stress during weening.  There are alot of companies out there that have become very good at putting together diets that will help you get everything you want to develop a show bull once you get him weened and on feed.  Once he is weened you should be able to push it to him pretty hard with right diet.  Keep an eye on his condition, you see him everyday have a trusted cattleman look at him periodically to give an opinion as to the condition of the calf.

Just some thoughts, good luck and keep us posted.

RSC

Offline red

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Re: Developing a show bull
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2008, 09:20:36 AM »
Jenny- do you have a picture & his breeding?

Red
"People don't care how much you know until they know how much you care"
" Some succeed because they are destined to,
but most succeed because they are determined to."
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Offline Jenny

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Re: Developing a show bull
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2008, 03:56:47 PM »
Actually, he is not even born yet'; due in a few weeks.
Can't wait!
Thanks for the replies.

Offline JbarL

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Re: Developing a show bull
« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2008, 08:22:31 PM »
We are hoping to raise a breeding bull that will be competitve in Denver next Jan. or at least look good!

The bulls we saw there this year (Limousin) were weighing 1400 lbs. at 11 monthes of age, had huge scrotal circumferences for that age ((upper 30's, even 40) and had wonderful long hair.

How do you get the bulls to be that big at that young age?  Do we need to shut the calf as soon as he can eat creep and feed the dickens out  him  while letting him stay on the cow or can we wait until weaning time to shut him and feed him heavily?  Also, how much "fudging" of the birthdates are there at large national shows like this?

Thanks for whatever help you can give me!
If you really work at you can get the weight withought having to adjust the age.  I am sure there are others that can give you better advice but I will throw out a few ideas.  First and foremost, do not skip anything from a health management standpoint.  The Breeder that bought Doc, went almost overboard to cross the T's and dot the I's from a health preventative standpoint.  From worming/pouring pretty often to vacinations and adding meds during stress.  With today's genetics if you keep him healthy, you will get him to grow.

I personally would start out with creep right away.  I personally like a pelleted high protien creep.  Be carefull not to use a high grain creep early on, you don't want them to get to fat and limit his potential.  High protien creep should help you put muscle mass on the calf.  At around 120-150 days of age I would start on a traditional diet and start partial weening the calf.  Letting the calf back with the cow once a day will help to minimize stress during weening.  There are alot of companies out there that have become very good at putting together diets that will help you get everything you want to develop a show bull once you get him weened and on feed.  Once he is weened you should be able to push it to him pretty hard with right diet.  Keep an eye on his condition, you see him everyday have a trusted cattleman look at him periodically to give an opinion as to the condition of the calf.

Just some thoughts, good luck and keep us posted.

RSC

thanks for the good  info ....what do you do consider "right away"  for introducing creep?        thanks jbarl

Offline red

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Re: Developing a show bull
« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2008, 08:36:48 AM »
Jbarl- we provide a place for the calves to get away. Bed it w/ straw to keep it dry. We place a small feeder w/ a handful of grain in it. I do this the first week their are born. They start noseing around w/ it at first & then taste it. We get them started right off the bat. Also has a decox in it for exrta protection.

Red
"People don't care how much you know until they know how much you care"
" Some succeed because they are destined to,
but most succeed because they are determined to."
www.redmaplemaines.com

 

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