Fire Water for slick smokey steers

Sjd

You are right about the Sanchez comments. I again apologize as they were unfounded. I got the pedigree wrong - my bad. Again if I struck a nerve with someone my bad.

I find it very interesting that the old imported French bull Facco C09 was mentioned earlier. Back in the 70's, a man named Hanson from eastern Iowa , won the carcass show at the Iowa State fair, many times with steers from his son of Facco C09. Those steers were hard to beat in carcass shows, but I don't recall ever seeing one live. At that time we used a French import named Ali Baba Bramard, he produced good looking as well as good carcass cattle. It has me wondering if modern show steers would appreciate the looks of the Bramard bull. I would love to give him a try if he were easier calving.

SJC

When a bull in any breed gets the profile Freedom has they will have detractors and I have no problem with that. But you say you are from the St Paul AB area and you bought a Freedom son from me, AGAIN I have never sold a Freedom son anywhere near your area and I don't believe I've ever sold you a bull. I'm also 99% sure I know who you are and I if I'm right your a purebred breeder that has never bought a bull from me.  

Dory.

I am not a purebred breeder - never owned a purebred and do not want to. I have gone from apologetic to pissed off. There is a reason why I buy bulls from your neighbour now and not you. You know those Rio sons I was talking about earlier. They are from your neighbours bull Quantum. And i am very happy with them. It is not my fault that you never called me to find out how the bull turned out. I would have told you. Throwing money at me online forum to salvage your reputation is actually pretty pathetic buddy. You lost me as a customer. If you want to continue this I will more then happily start a new post comparing the weaning weights from your bull to your neighbours bull.

I may have screwed up on my Sanchez breeding but I didnt on yours.

sjc said:

Mark H.

The best Revelations I saw was in the Alberta Fall Harvest Sale and it was not Gerrard's. All Dory had was Freedom calves and a big tall Pilgrim heifer. The same guys had a bull calf on display there as well and he was awesome. They sold him out of the stall from what I heard. The heifer calf was the high seller in the sale. I would not say that the Revelations were not that impressive, the few I saw were pretty dam good. Ill try and find the sale book to see who had those Revelations. I dont think they were in Agribition though.

Freedoms are show cattle. Good for one cross on the big tall lanky cows but do not have the performance or guts a lot of guys want or need in their bull pen. Pilgrim is alright, crosses well on those little Freedoms to bring back some power but they are soggier cattle. There are better Rio Blanco sons in the industry then Pilgrim.

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Actually sjc there is more than just your Sanchez comment(which I commend you for admitting wasn't true) that doesn't add up. Gerrard's only had the Pilgrim heifer at the Alberta Fall Harvest, they did not have any Freedom calves at this event as you stated you had seen in your post above. Also a search of Quantum sons who are old enough to have a calf crop in the Charolais assoc. database shows the hometown of all commercial breeders who are using Quantum sons to be; Carstairs, Innisfail, Tees, Sundre, Caroline, Red Deer, Bowden, Sylvan Lake, Didsbury, Swalwell, Coldstream BC & Wallaceburg ON(purebred) the closest any of these places is to St. Paul, AB as you say you are from is 341km (211 miles). If you have recently moved to St. Paul from one of these places please accept my apologies but many comments you have posted just don't add up. Opinions on sires and genetics whether positive or negative can be both interesting and informative however they should be integrity based. Not everyone is going to like the same sires or programs nor will any one sire or program work for all cattlemen and that is fine and what makes the world go round however I  just don't feel that slanderous remarks in a public forum against peoples breeding programs like you have made about Sparrows, Sandan & Gerrards has any place.

Actually I farmed with my dad just south of Innisfail but bought my uncle out in St Paul a few years back. My brother took over the home ranch and is still there today.

Again I didn't mean to offend anyone. I actually used some of Sandans bulls with good results. My comment on the Vermilions was that some were not as sound. That was my observation. My comment on Sparrow wasn't meant to be in poor taste either. They run a hell of a show in SK and get paid for there bulls bigtime. I just was saying that I am unsure how some of those bulls will cross - the sires are rugged bulls. Anyway its working for them and they are bringing new blood into the breed.I feel awful for screwing up the Sanchez bull and spouting off. I ran one of Double L Sanchez calves last year but didn't get him. Again I was wrong.
Ill keep more comments to myself - again please accept my apologies if I was out of line and hurt someones feelings and or reputation.

I envy you purebred breeders out there - the political bs would drive me insane.

To be fair to Dory I did move and maybe he did call dad or my brother. I don't think so and don't appreciate being called out either. Hopefully we can move on.

Well, it looks like my post got highjacked.  That's okay if it helped work out some bad feeling between old friends.  Now back to my orginal thoughts about using Fire Water to sire smokey steers.  I found out that his frame score is 5.9 so he may not be too big for producing those steers that I am after just wouldn't use him on any really big cows.  I really like his look and plan to try sample him next go around.  Freddie who posts here has bred a few to him for fall calving.  It will be nice to see how those turn out.  Anyone in Texas have any experience with Fire Water?

I haven't even read most of the comments but I have seen probably a hundred of his calves and loved every one of them.  Every mature cow in the herd was ai'd to him this year and heifers to his sire.  His epd's are good enough for any purebred breeder (almost anyways) and his phenotype is phenomenal.  I would venture to say he is the top ROE sire in the breed (points of progeny in shows)

Possum Trot Ranch said:

Well, it looks like my post got highjacked.  That's okay if it helped work out some bad feeling between old friends.  Now back to my orginal thoughts about using Fire Water to sire smokey steers.  I found out that his frame score is 5.9 so he may not be too big for producing those steers that I am after just wouldn't use him on any really big cows.  I really like his look and plan to try sample him next go around.  Freddie who posts here has bred a few to him for fall calving.  It will be nice to see how those turn out.  Anyone in Texas have any experience with Fire Water?

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there has been a few females shipped down that way and will be shown in fort worth if u make it that way u could check them out