Quantcast From bad to worse

Sponsors



Author Topic: From bad to worse  (Read 7571 times)

Offline CAB

  • National Champion Poster
  • **********
  • Posts: 5585
  • Karma 104
    • View Profile
Re: From bad to worse
« Reply #15 on: May 04, 2010, 12:00:12 PM »
IV is the BEST!  I would not give an antitoxin along with a vaccine, they work against each other, give the antitoxin and wait till he clears, then vaccinate him.

I understand what you are saying in this statement, but in some cases the clostrial problems are so hot that you have to give them both @ the same time B/C you need the anti-toxin to keep them alive to give the toxoid time to give protection and a revaccination will be needed say approx. 30 days later.

Offline shelby23

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 13
  • Karma 2
    • View Profile
Re: From bad to worse
« Reply #16 on: May 04, 2010, 12:56:02 PM »
We have a calf with the same symptoms going on right now...For some reason we have scours like that but if they go from white to a gray color it is e-coli scours..  Our vet had us give the calf 3cc of gentamiacyn ini the muscle in the neck and 3cc in the mouth...it worked right away..  we also give tetracylcine scour boluses (yellow) in color..  from past experience, we never take the calf off the mother and when you give electrolytes with scours it curdles in there tummy...we also give Appetite Express..it has b vitamins and probiotics and seems to settle their tummy and keep their appetite up.. Hope this helps..baking soda drench also really helps to buffer their stomachs and get rid of alot of the acid...that works for acidosis also..




Offline DL

  • State Champion Poster
  • ******
  • Posts: 3622
  • Karma 284
    • View Profile
Re: From bad to worse
« Reply #17 on: May 04, 2010, 01:06:12 PM »
Our vet had us give the calf 3cc of gentamiacyn ini the muscle in the neck and 3cc in the mouth...it worked right away.. 

Did your vet also tell you that the slaughter withhold for animals treated with Gentamicin is 18 (eighteen) MONTHS?? YES A YEAR AND A HALF - the use of gentamicin in food animals is to be greatly discouraged
Going to church doesn't make you a christian any more than standing in a garage makes you a car

Offline CAB

  • National Champion Poster
  • **********
  • Posts: 5585
  • Karma 104
    • View Profile
Re: From bad to worse
« Reply #18 on: May 04, 2010, 02:33:47 PM »
 I was going to say that I thought that genamiacin had been off of the market for right @ 20 years.

  I think that it is the milk that is curdling in the calf''s stomach. That white/grey scours is usually a milk or weather scours. If it gets to the consistency of water no matter what color it is, is when we all start to worry big  time B/C that's when the calf can go to following momma one day, to not being able to get up and stand the next. Needless to say that we want to get on top of the problem quickly. Anyone that has had this kind of scours knows how paranoid a producer can get if you start to see signs of an all out breakout of scours!!!

As far as taking the calf off of Momma, it seems like a mean thing to do and it is hard for a person to do, but in my experience I have had the best results treating the calf to recovery by pulling them for a minimum of  48 hours and a maximum of 72 hours. This is of coarse for calves that are , let's say in critical condition. As earlier mentioned, if we can get on top of a problem quickly, it is best. I often treat possibly too quickly, but I am one of the paranoid PPL that have had a full blown case of scours once or twice.

Offline kanshow

  • State Champion Poster
  • ******
  • Posts: 2660
  • Karma 81
    • View Profile
Re: From bad to worse
« Reply #19 on: May 04, 2010, 02:45:18 PM »
I agree CAB..   we probably treat calves that if left alone, may clear themselves.  However, it can be only a couple hours from following momma to down and can't get up. 

The motto around here is .. when in doubt, treat.   

Offline DL

  • State Champion Poster
  • ******
  • Posts: 3622
  • Karma 284
    • View Profile
Re: From bad to worse
« Reply #20 on: May 04, 2010, 04:11:12 PM »
CAB - gentamicin is not off the market - it is used in a wide variety of NON FOOD animals (and humans, although newer aminoglycoside antibiotics have replaced it in many instances) but residues can be found in cattle 18 months after a single treatment - hence the admonition not to use it in food animals and the 18 month slaughter withdrawal

The general recommendation in treating scours is not to take them off the cow - they will not receive sufficient energy on electrolytes alone and most calves that are still up and running will not be accepting of the bottle - a calf that is flat out (critical) is a different story

re antitoxin - this is an antibody which can neutralize a toxin (in this case produced by the clostridial bacteria); the vaccine stimulates the production of antibodies against the specific bacteria - they can be given simultaneously
Going to church doesn't make you a christian any more than standing in a garage makes you a car

Offline lucysmom

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 33
  • Karma 2
    • View Profile
Re: From bad to worse
« Reply #21 on: May 04, 2010, 05:42:20 PM »
Isn't it great that there is a forum for this kind of discussion?  I love it.  An update - I think we've turned a corner. No evidence of scours today,
butt is cleaner, and he's sucking down water and hay and momma"s bag is nearly empty so he evidently is feeling better. He's nursed well all along
but looks like he's been a real piggie today. Acts a bit more energetic as well.
I really did consider pulling him off mom even though it's mean.  From what I can gather about clostridium, it feeds on the protein and starches
in the gut. Therefore, it makes sense to me that if you remove its food source it cannot flourish as well. Luckily we did not have to go there.  We'll
have another culture done to check, but I'm cautiously hopeful that we're recovering.
The momma did have her vaccs, we do annual vacs ( all the vet offers) and prior to calving we hit her with the scour guards.  We just hadn't
vacced the calf - were scheduling that at 3 months.  We'll be doing at birth from now on.  I figrued out also that the Baytril was to gaurd
against a respiratory illness, which is evidently a common secondary infection. Hate for him to have gone through this but will be so much
more prepared the next time.  He hasn't shown much interest in the minerals yet which surprises me but as long as he's improvng I'm
not going to stress about that. He'll go after them when he needs them I guess. 
It sure was nice to talk to some folks that have been through this and had all the great suggestions and information. Those of you with sick
babies, I sure feel your pain.  And we ony have one! :)

Offline Jill

  • State Champion Poster
  • ******
  • Posts: 3551
  • Karma 206
    • View Profile
Re: From bad to worse
« Reply #22 on: May 04, 2010, 07:17:10 PM »
Using the scour guard before calving in the right time frame should be the only protection you need, we have never had one get scours that mom had the scour guard in the correct time frame, if it wasn't done in the correct window that's a different deal, you shouldn't have to redo the calf at birth, they should be protected from mom.

Offline DL

  • State Champion Poster
  • ******
  • Posts: 3622
  • Karma 284
    • View Profile
Re: From bad to worse
« Reply #23 on: May 04, 2010, 08:53:08 PM »
Using the scour guard before calving in the right time frame should be the only protection you need, we have never had one get scours that mom had the scour guard in the correct time frame, if it wasn't done in the correct window that's a different deal, you shouldn't have to redo the calf at birth, they should be protected from mom.


I am talking about vaccinating for clostri8dial diseases at birth - Scourgard when given in the correct time frame protects against   Rotavirus serotypes G6 and G10, E. coli, Coronavirus, and  Clostridium perfringens Type C but not the other clostridial diseases

The notion that pulling the calf off milk because the bacteria thrive on the protein is antiquated and flawed but still persists - removing the food source from the bacteria also removes the food source from the calf which makes it more difficult for him to fight off the infection

FYI Baytril is not approved for use for metaphalyxis (ie prevention of pneumonia in susceptible cattle) it is only approved for use in treatment of pneumonia - http://www.bayerdvm.com/products/baytril/baytril100Cattle.cfm and basically the common secondary infection to viral diarrhea is bacterial diarrhea - pneumonia is not considered a secondary infection to diarrhea

glad your calf is better - sounds like he turned the corner
Going to church doesn't make you a christian any more than standing in a garage makes you a car

Offline lucysmom

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 33
  • Karma 2
    • View Profile
Re: From bad to worse
« Reply #24 on: May 05, 2010, 09:55:25 PM »
Thanks DL, it seems he has.  Not completely well yet but on his way. I appreciate you taking the time to research and point out things we need to know. Believe
me I know we will never be experts but if we're going to raise a few calves we better know all we can.  You make a lot of sense and back it up. Heck, all of you on
here have way more knowledge than we do I'm thinking. Sorry I just got back to post, had a lot going yesterday.

 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
0 Replies
1248 Views
Last post November 07, 2010, 08:12:31 PM
by knabe
19 Replies
6536 Views
Last post February 10, 2013, 11:27:53 AM
by renegadelivestock
6 Replies
2186 Views
Last post August 13, 2013, 10:46:33 AM
by ALTSIMMY 79
15 Replies
6888 Views
Last post March 02, 2015, 08:14:29 PM
by BuddyG
18 Replies
6263 Views
Last post March 08, 2016, 07:25:09 AM
by mark tenenbaum

Powered by EzPortal

SteerPlanet Designed Websites

SteerPlanet Designed Websites

Steer Planet Classifieds & Auctions

Breeder Directory