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Offline E6 Durhams

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Re: HC Vanguard 22Z
« Reply #30 on: June 02, 2020, 10:55:27 PM »
I would be scared to death to buy a Shorthorn bull from most all of the Shorthorn breed. I can't trust that they are honest about birth weights. The only people I have trusted to buy a bull from is Lovings.

Oh shut up with that. Breed one better then. Lovings is a top notch place but so are many others. You ***** about the breed non stop.


I think everyone has made their point here and all are valid. Lets move on. Lots of good cattle being bred up these days. It would be a damn shame if the breed took another wrong turn over people not using genetics over personal beefs.

The bull JIT sold to Illinois looks like a million bucks in that photo. Lets see him out on grass with cows and then his calves. Then we can evaluate.

I also recall Mark being way way high on Touchdown and even used him on his cows. That turned out to not be what he had hoped. We need to eliminate that in the breed. We need prepotent and consistency. Only one way I know to do that. Worked with my pigs.

I used Alamo for three years. I kept two really good sons of his. One will see his half sisters as heifers. One will see the main herd in a mob with Big Sky.

Chandlers cows work here. And they work well. They work as good as Lee Millers. Lee is one of my favorite people on earth and his cattle are good. He has a great eye for cattle. So does XBar and Mark. Imagine if we all worked together going forward what could be accomplished.
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Offline E6 Durhams

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Re: HC Vanguard 22Z
« Reply #31 on: June 02, 2020, 10:58:20 PM »
Here is the roan Alamo son I pulled from the Ohio beef expo when the covid went down. He will see cows here instead. Just a yearling but too 5% in all EPDs. Ill offer him up against any yearling bull walking.
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Offline aj

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Re: HC Vanguard 22Z
« Reply #32 on: June 03, 2020, 08:49:49 AM »
I have bred one better. Sodhouse Red Stylist 220. DR4254632
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Offline aj

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Re: HC Vanguard 22Z
« Reply #33 on: June 03, 2020, 08:58:23 AM »
220
People can't believe we have such a big moon for such a small town.

Offline mark tenenbaum

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Re: HC Vanguard 22Z
« Reply #34 on: June 03, 2020, 10:03:31 AM »
Agreed-Id still use Touchdown on heifers if they were xbreds or had some clubby-thats what worked when i used him-He just didnt make show calves other than one-Whos first calf dam  was a proud jazzximpact Shaker low BW deal He was a real decent calf-After that he just didnt knick on the other Shorthorns -happens with all cattle-its just part of the deal and you dont know if you dont try We have a real decent Touchdown cow however-out of a commercial simmental X too Once Wernicke gets him settled-That roan will get worked plenty-Between his cows and Probably Hortons HFS What a Bull looked liked a $million as a long yearling-and got run HARD like that at a youing age-Good calves -Took him awhile to come back but he did O0
« Last Edit: June 03, 2020, 10:08:54 AM by mark tenenbaum »

Offline mark tenenbaum

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Re: HC Vanguard 22Z
« Reply #35 on: June 03, 2020, 10:17:18 AM »
220
///// OH POOH POOH Hes haf RED Angus-Whats he look like now? IS HE TESTED FOR EVERYTHING? I always liked the Shorts and Maines on his Shorthorn side tho theyd probably even out do Solution RE BWS on the wrong female-Never got to see Warlord or Maine impression WHAT DID THEY LOOK LIKE?-Saw a picture of the Mr man pepper heifer or something at a show maybe 15-or 17  years ago-She was stout- O0

Offline aj

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Re: HC Vanguard 22Z
« Reply #36 on: June 03, 2020, 06:02:02 PM »
He looks a bit tough. We have had 3 inches of rain since last August. He's with 50 cows right now. 40 calves on the ground. So next spring we will have over 100 calves to evaluate. I'm not bragging. Dipstick claimed I have never raised anything. I simply replied. I know what his birth was because I weighed him. I apologize for annoying you. He's free of all known Shorthorn and Red Angus defects.
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Online Doc

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Re: HC Vanguard 22Z
« Reply #37 on: June 03, 2020, 08:20:57 PM »
I have bred one better. Sodhouse Red Stylist 220. DR4254632

 He's more Maine and RA, than he is Shorthorn. You say he is free of everything but he hasn't been tested?? Going back to Warhorse, Suds, & Improver he could PHA, TH or DS or all 3. Nothing in his pedigree that I saw had been tested.
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Offline E6 Durhams

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Re: HC Vanguard 22Z
« Reply #38 on: June 03, 2020, 09:11:34 PM »
220

Thats terrible picture to try and evaluate. I thought the pic I posted was bad. I sent DNA in on the town bull. Defect free. He had DS up close in his pedigree. Its good to know where you stand. Line breeding use to be the way to find genetic defects. Now we have a quicker way.
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Offline aj

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Re: HC Vanguard 22Z
« Reply #39 on: June 04, 2020, 07:55:57 AM »
Stylist's sire was a purebred Red Red Angus. I had him tested for I think two Red Angus defects. I have spent over 7,000 $ testing for th over the last 10 whatever years. I'll have to look for paper work on the dam she was tested or clean by pedigree. It was probably done by Beever and not the official company. I'll send in a test to the official company this fall. I may draw semen this fall. I'll take bets on his results. It isn't hard to raise genetic defect cattle......unless you are taking short cuts to win in the show ring.
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Offline aj

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Re: HC Vanguard 22Z
« Reply #40 on: June 04, 2020, 08:09:58 AM »
I apologize to you Doc for raising unworthy genetic defect free Shorthorn plus cattle. Shorthorn people love the black and roan shorthorn pluses that carry at least 2 defects. One the one teleconference call I was on a few month back we talked about the Shorthorn Plus perception of genetic junk. Nobody even thinks about the Shorthorn breed having something like the Sim Angus or balancer type program. The perception is that the Shorthorn Plus deal is a CLUB CALF DEAL only. The big deal is that almost all Shorthorn people hate cattle that look like Red Angus. They just hate it. They want color. I sold  batch of Red Angus looking half bloods at the Oberlin sale barn that weighed under 500 pounds and they brought almost 900 dollars a piece. The beef industry doesn't want color for what ever reason. I really don't care whether I am in a Shorthorn Breeder mutual admiration society or not. People say I am not a Shorthorn breeder because I don't raise purebreds. The ASA didn't turn down the over 1,000 dollar WHR money I sent in though. Bahahahahaha
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Offline mark tenenbaum

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Re: HC Vanguard 22Z
« Reply #41 on: June 04, 2020, 10:23:54 AM »
The Durham Red Deal was the biggest screwing the assoc ever put on breeders Forward to today on the club calf appearances side-Ones that resemble a Shorthorn and RED Angus xs are breaking the bank in beltbuckle $1000 duckwalking cowboy boot land-because they have virtually disappeared Even now-many of the best Charolais and Hereford and "Angus' appearing calves come from half or unregistered Shorthorn dams   Back in the day- There were a bunch of REALLY good Durham Reds that also just disappeared Doc had one hell of a roan cow bred that way Probably the best JMO female ive seen of his-Maybe the best I never got to see were Jerry lehmans in Wisconsin -he was producing from what I heard some outstanding red Angus Xs in the early-mid 90s on I have stated this humble opinion on a number of occaisions and I guess I now see a not so subtle move by the Assoc towards black shorthorn XS-I mean-how many blue roans are you gonna produce?-I  think that any f 1s etc are about  the only way people are going to use Shorthorns commercially This is is because they can see them-They dont give a SH%^&^*()_T about a couple feed tests-even though those tests have alot of merit to purebred breeders and are proof of the bottom line-that these cattle grade The last time Shorthorns were used in any real volume by everyone was the club calf days when they ruled And later with  bulls like Proud Jazz and  Capiche who were actually safe and useable  So-the Shorthorn lemmings downed them for DS and used "0" BW weight Solution sons, Salute etc Then Hot Commodity gets bred one time to the resultant progeny and you have a 0 BW bull for all the friends and neighbors-FOR ONLY $50-100 a straw I want the oldschool thick look in a little more manageble package -because thats what people continually ask me about and those are the ones I like Commercial guys are used to real thick cattle that dont necessarily kill their cows nor melt into a bag of bones-Produce that and you have the same thing 8 other breeds have had for years Yeah yeah-there are exceptions- Any semen on Warlord-ANY comments on maine Impression-I know where his semen is and like the oldschool shorthorn side just dont know from there how he looked or calved O0
« Last Edit: June 04, 2020, 10:54:16 AM by mark tenenbaum »

Online Doc

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Re: HC Vanguard 22Z
« Reply #42 on: June 04, 2020, 07:19:49 PM »
Stylist's sire was a purebred Red Red Angus. I had him tested for I think two Red Angus defects. I have spent over 7,000 $ testing for th over the last 10 whatever years. I'll have to look for paper work on the dam she was tested or clean by pedigree. It was probably done by Beever and not the official company. I'll send in a test to the official company this fall. I may draw semen this fall. I'll take bets on his results. It isn't hard to raise genetic defect cattle......unless you are taking short cuts to win in the show ring.

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Online Doc

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Re: HC Vanguard 22Z
« Reply #43 on: June 04, 2020, 07:35:29 PM »
I apologize to you Doc for raising unworthy genetic defect free Shorthorn plus cattle. Shorthorn people love the black and roan shorthorn pluses that carry at least 2 defects.

 No need to apologize to me !! I don't give a rat's butt what you raise. I can pretty well guarantee that whatever you raise I won't be buying just like whatever I raise you won't be buying. We have different type buyers, so we raise different type cattle.
 As far as your bull goes, I was just pointing out that he was more RA and Maine than he was Shorthorn. Also other than taking your word for it no one knows that he is defect free because there is nothing on the ASA website. Like I said he or his dam would have to be tested for all 3 defects with animals in her pedigree that have all 3 conditions.
 Yes you are correct, people like those blue roans. Myself included. I don't agree that they have to have 2 genetic defects to be good though. I like the red roan Pluses and even solid red ones. But the solid red ones need to be a darker red and not that pumpkin orange. JMHO.
 The 3 blue roans and 1 other one are all recips for me. They have awesome udders, easy fleshing and are 1/2 Shorthorn. The red roan is a RA x Shorthorn cross female.
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Offline knabe

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Re: HC Vanguard 22Z
« Reply #44 on: June 04, 2020, 11:51:18 PM »
Whats the foot score on that mongrel bull?

Cant see any pasterns at all.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2020, 11:51:43 PM by knabe »
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