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Author Topic: Heritage/Native Shorthorn Bull Listing  (Read 17565 times)

Offline Boreal

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Re: Heritage/Native Shorthorn Bull Listing
« Reply #150 on: January 12, 2021, 09:14:34 PM »
Boreal, nt821 sounds undesirable to me. Anecdotally, Petes Top Gain might have carried it.
Im still trying to figure out if F94L might be a cold climate adaptation. This is a good site, despite the word miniature in the title. I guess miniature cattle are a perfect storm for defects, so they need good information. Anyway, the Galloway variant is one of the disruptive ones Six myostatin variants are disruptive mutations, which cause the "double-muscling" effect results from enlarged muscle cells. Three are missense mutations, which increase muscularity due to the animal having more muscle cells.
http://www.miniature-cattle.com/article.dm.htm


Yeah Id say its largely undesireable - especially because theres great cattle without it. I did quite a bit of research on myo a few years ago. Seems to be some upside to a few but a lot of downside to most. That always begged the question for me: why are they there? There has to be some evolutionary advantage to them, in certain circumstances, in order for them to persist in the population. My E226X bull, and my nt821 bulls, are/were the best footed bulls Ive owned. Im not sure theres anything to it, but certainly that would confer some survival benefit.

Offline librarian

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Re: Heritage/Native Shorthorn Bull Listing
« Reply #151 on: January 13, 2021, 09:50:06 AM »
Boreal, nt821 sounds undesirable to me. Anecdotally, Petes Top Gain might have carried it.
Im still trying to figure out if F94L might be a cold climate adaptation. This is a good site, despite the word miniature in the title. I guess miniature cattle are a perfect storm for defects, so they need good information. Anyway, the Galloway variant is one of the disruptive ones Six myostatin variants are disruptive mutations, which cause the "double-muscling" effect results from enlarged muscle cells. Three are missense mutations, which increase muscularity due to the animal having more muscle cells.
http://www.miniature-cattle.com/article.dm.htm


Yeah Id say its largely undesireable - especially because theres great cattle without it. I did quite a bit of research on myo a few years ago. Seems to be some upside to a few but a lot of downside to most. That always begged the question for me: why are they there? There has to be some evolutionary advantage to them, in certain circumstances, in order for them to persist in the population. My E226X bull, and my nt821 bulls, are/were the best footed bulls Ive owned. Im not sure theres anything to it, but certainly that would confer some survival benefit.

Same with this bull. He has those good hard red feet that cover a lot of ground and dont wear out. Red and a little striped with black. I noticed his feet right away, and at almost 9 years his springs are still good...after a lot of hard work on North Dakota pastures, covering lots of cows for lots of years. Breeding is all about observation of environment x genetic interactions and sorting it out for product. Thats why I like Weston genetics. Maybe he knew the trade offs and selected for this particular mutation, dampening extremes by always putting muscle onto hard working milky cows. I can only guess.
'Those who do not understand the old will not understand the new'. -farmers quote

Offline librarian

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Re: Heritage/Native Shorthorn Bull Listing
« Reply #152 on: January 13, 2021, 10:17:21 AM »
Weston Romeo was one of my favourite bulls, I saw him at Weston in 1978 as an aged bull but he still had lots of muscle and very long hip. He was a TPS Coronet Leader 21st son.
Lets talk about breeding combinations for a minute. What type of cow would (one infer) Romeos dam to have been and what would she bring to a Leader 21 cross? Instead of disputing the accuracy of the pedigrees, maybe we could just talk about overall type. Maybe there are pictures of the Weston herd.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2021, 11:00:39 AM by librarian »
'Those who do not understand the old will not understand the new'. -farmers quote

Offline oakview

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Re: Heritage/Native Shorthorn Bull Listing
« Reply #153 on: January 13, 2021, 01:55:36 PM »
I always liked that photo of Romeo.  However, the dam's side of the pedigree would be belt buckle cattle at best.  Leader 21's background, though he may have been somewhat an outlier himself, was the same. 

Offline beebe

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Re: Heritage/Native Shorthorn Bull Listing
« Reply #154 on: January 13, 2021, 06:41:23 PM »
Doc had a son of Romeo that he called Too Tall, also he had a son named Fortune that was no where near belt buckle cattle.

Offline oakview

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Re: Heritage/Native Shorthorn Bull Listing
« Reply #155 on: January 14, 2021, 09:27:54 AM »
I did not say Romeo, "Too Tall", Fortune, or any other Weston bull was a belt buckle creature.  I just pointed out that the ancestry of many of those animals contained almost completely very small framed animals.  You would be hard pressed to find a photo of one that was not.  We used a son of Weston Goliath for several years, I saw Fillet, White Count, Independence, and many other Weston bred cattle.  They were not belt buckle cattle.  There's no arguing the fact that their ancestors were.  The first champion bulls at the Iowa State Fair that I remember were WL Golden Glory, Royal Tartan King, and PF Nugget in the early 60's.  By today's standards they were probably 3 frame scores.
 Virtually no one started talking about increased growth rate and frame size for several years and Leader 21, even noted as an outlier by his owner, came along at the right time.

Offline beebe

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Re: Heritage/Native Shorthorn Bull Listing
« Reply #156 on: January 14, 2021, 04:16:30 PM »
I did not say Romeo, "Too Tall", Fortune, or any other Weston bull was a belt buckle creature.  I just pointed out that the ancestry of many of those animals contained almost completely very small framed animals.  You would be hard pressed to find a photo of one that was not.  We used a son of Weston Goliath for several years, I saw Fillet, White Count, Independence, and many other Weston bred cattle.  They were not belt buckle cattle.  There's no arguing the fact that their ancestors were.  The first champion bulls at the Iowa State Fair that I remember were WL Golden Glory, Royal Tartan King, and PF Nugget in the early 60's.  By today's standards they were probably 3 frame scores.
 Virtually no one started talking about increased growth rate and frame size for several years and Leader 21, even noted as an outlier by his owner, came along at the right time.
I won't argue with anything you said.  I had a son of Fortune that was the best of the 4 Shorthorn bulls I had from Doc, today I would say he was a little too big.  He weighed 2300 and he stood much taller than he needed.  But sired consistent offspring.

 

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