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Offline justintime

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Horned vs Polled
« on: August 06, 2007, 09:21:59 PM »
Here is a question for you to consider.....
You are a purebred breeder with a herd of 50 breeding age females. You are looking for a herd bull to use in your herd as you only A.I. a few head each year. Your cows are almost all polled and about 1/2 of them are at least 3 generations polled breeding and the rest are two generations or less. You have three horned females in the herd.
In your search for the next great herd sire, you find two bulls that you really like. Both have excellent bloodlines and both are selling in the same sale.The only problem is that the one you like the best is horned while the other bull is polled and not quite as good. You also know that the chances are that the horned bull will sell for considerably less money than the polled bull will. You also want to try to produce some bulls that can be developed to sell, so you are conscience of the discrepancy that often exists between horned and polled animals.
THE QUESTION IS>>>> WOULD YOU TRY TO BUY THE HORNED BULL AS YOU THINK HE IS THE BEST BULL.... OR WOULD YOU PASS HIM BY BECAUSE HE IS HORNED AND TRY TO PURCHASE THE POLLED BULL? Have at it.....
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Offline Doc

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Re: Horned vs Polled
« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2007, 09:47:51 PM »
  I would have to go ahead & go with the horned bull. If they are similar in pedigree & color.
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Offline itk

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Re: Horned vs Polled
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2007, 09:53:29 PM »
I say take the best animal no matter what. Horned and polled doesn't really matter to me. About the only time I wouldn't take the best animals is if he was stocking legged, THC and horned. People get to wrapped up in the little things like horns and hair color and forget to evaluate the whole animal. It is amazing how much genetic progress some people are willing to miss out on because they refuse to use horned or roan or any other vice they might have in their herd. I would never pay more for a subpar animal who's only advantage is being polled, horns just don't make that much of a difference in our operation.
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Offline OH Breeder

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Re: Horned vs Polled
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2007, 10:17:24 PM »
Buy the best bull that fits your program. If the bull that is horned is only disqualified from selection because of horns, then go with the horn. If the polled animal is better and more to your program then go polled.

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Offline CPL

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Re: Horned vs Polled
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2007, 10:40:12 PM »
Probably would go with the polled bull, especially when selling to commerical bull buyers. Although I'm not intimidated by them, I've heard alot of fuss about them- not to mention their % horned progeny being discounted at the sale barn. However, I'd say there's some pretty good genetics in some Horned Herefords (Cooper/Holden and others) but seeing the gap between Horned and Polled in the Hereford breed more people are reluctant to combine genetics to furture the breed.

Offline renegade

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Re: Horned vs Polled
« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2007, 11:35:00 PM »
Polled is the dominant gene. Most of your progeny should be polled and if a cow keeps having a horned calf and you don't want that sell her and use a replacement heifer without that recessive gene.

Offline maine12

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Re: Horned vs Polled
« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2007, 11:52:56 PM »
you could alway burn the bus so they dont grow and you cant see them then when at the sale barn
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Offline Jill

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Re: Horned vs Polled
« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2007, 07:39:32 AM »
As a Maine breeder I would buy the horned, it only affects 3 cows in your scenerio, the others should throw polled calves regardless of the bull, there is a little added cost for the horns, we burn them off on most, but do surgical dehorn on the "great" ones, but I think the better bull wins out.
In the case of the Hereford scenerio I would stick with what I had, horned or polled, I can understand that line of thinking also.

Offline aj

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Re: Horned vs Polled
« Reply #8 on: August 07, 2007, 07:50:28 AM »
cpl. I think the horned vs. the polled herford deal was coming along. When I was judging herfords in college(1981) I know the horned herford people and polled herford people would almost come to blows when disscussing the two breeds. Now they are under one association. I had the impression that the horned herfords were better butted back then than the poll's. I think the herfords are a under rated breed that work well in rough tuff enviroments.There is alot of tradition in the herford breed and alot of proud people that breed them.
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Offline DL

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Re: Horned vs Polled
« Reply #9 on: August 07, 2007, 09:03:28 AM »
I hate dehorning - I really hate dehorning - it can border on barbaric depending on who does it when and I hate the smell of burning

that said the polled/horned trait is only one trait that I look at for my herd - so if the horned bull is the better bull I would take him.

In the Maine breed there are a fair number of polled bulls but very few homozygous polled - in fact Pollstar is the only one that I am aware of and his semen is no longer availabe (I am sure there are others but they probably are PHAC  >:( )so I end up doing a fair amount of dehorning every year - I paste at less than a week - I sedate the calves and give them flunixin and it doesn't seem to bother most scratch at their heads a couple of times and go about their business - I pasted myself (no contrary to previous reports I was not born with horns :( ) to see how painful it is and actually my little event with the stuck bull and the gate and the sledge hammer last night was more painful - I think it would qualify as 90 lb weakling saves stuck bull and straightens out previously crooked nose!
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Offline CPL

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Re: Horned vs Polled
« Reply #10 on: August 07, 2007, 09:10:56 AM »
cpl. I think the horned vs. the polled herford deal was coming along. When I was judging herfords in college(1981) I know the horned herford people and polled herford people would almost come to blows when disscussing the two breeds. Now they are under one association. I had the impression that the horned herfords were better butted back then than the poll's. I think the herfords are a under rated breed that work well in rough tuff enviroments.There is alot of tradition in the herford breed and alot of proud people that breed them.

Many of the State Associations still have different associations for horned and polled. They also have different sales and shows. But its coming along.

Also, not everyone's commerical herd is going to be 100% polled. I know quite a few herds that have cows in the herd that were dehorned or horns sawed off, etc. The cows with horns generally run cheaper at the sale barn, so they buy those and then buy an angus bull (to take horns off and change color). The job of a bull breeder (any breed) is to produce a product that will do as good as or better than an angus bull. A horned bull is just one strike.

Just while were on the subject, most commerical farmers have very busy lives. They have bills that need payed and sometimes work 2 jobs. From a few I've spoken with and know they barely spend any time with their families, let alone have time cull bad females, monitor progeny, doctor up cows/calves that come down with something, etc. They want something that's not going to take a lot of input from themself (dehorning horned calves for example), but still return a profit. Again not every beef producer is this way, but there are quite a few in my area, and it makes since to get a product that appeals to them.

Offline CAB

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Re: Horned vs Polled
« Reply #11 on: August 07, 2007, 10:30:27 AM »
   Most everyone tags calves @ birth. Why don't people just take a quick feel @ that time & paste any horns Off? We've done it for many years, works very well. Brent

Offline knabe

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Re: Horned vs Polled
« Reply #12 on: August 07, 2007, 10:59:03 AM »
does anyone clip the hair first?  the problem i had with pasting them in the pasture, is that momma would come lickety split and lick it off, so you needed to keep them separate for a few minutes.  amazing how fast that stuff burns through to the muscle if you ignore it.

Offline DL

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Re: Horned vs Polled
« Reply #13 on: August 07, 2007, 11:23:35 AM »
does anyone clip the hair first?  the problem i had with pasting them in the pasture, is that momma would come lickety split and lick it off, so you needed to keep them separate for a few minutes.  amazing how fast that stuff burns through to the muscle if you ignore it.

I clip 'em and paste 'em - I lock the babies in a pen for a couple of hours and then just wipe the paste off - don't want to burn the tongue or udder of the unsuspecting mother!

CPL while I do agree with much of what you said and we are all busy, if cattlemen don't have time to "cull bad females, monitor progeny, doctor up cows/calves that come down with something, etc" then maybe they should consider getting out of the business - shouldn't the first priority of a good stockperson be taking care of the stock??.
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Offline garybob

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Re: Horned vs Polled
« Reply #14 on: August 07, 2007, 12:11:59 PM »
does anyone clip the hair first?  the problem i had with pasting them in the pasture, is that momma would come lickety split and lick it off, so you needed to keep them separate for a few minutes.  amazing how fast that stuff burns through to the muscle if you ignore it.

I clip 'em and paste 'em - I lock the babies in a pen for a couple of hours and then just wipe the paste off - don't want to burn the tongue or udder of the unsuspecting mother!

CPL while I do agree with much of what you said and we are all busy, if cattlemen don't have time to "cull bad females, monitor progeny, doctor up cows/calves that come down with something, etc" then maybe they should consider getting out of the business - shouldn't the first priority of a good stockperson be taking care of the stock??.

Good points from the both of you!

 

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