How long to wait on check?

How long should you give someone to get a check to you, for your calf, before you start doing something about it?  Big name = busy, I know, but we're talking months, and now I'm getting no response to my e-mails.  Should I worry?  Too late, already am..... 

Yes, I would worry and I would start doing something about it right away.  The longer you wait the slimmer your chances of getting it resolved. 
Best way to solve is not let a calf go until you have check in hand.  Hind siight is always 20/20.

what we need is a cattle better business bureau.

there are too many people ripping too many people off.

it should be centered around transactions only.

ask the brand inspector if you can go pick up the calf, perhaps talk to the sheriff.

check on their email by asking if they have any calves for sale, that you need a calf desperately and you have heard great things about their calves.

these people pull the same tricks over and over.  they don't write checks, they say trust me, they don't allow collateral, they never pay and when you confront them, they claim some sort of brain disease hampers their judgment.  they get pissed, they say don't call anyone or you'll ruin the deal.  it's time to start outing these people.  they are taking money out of the cattle industry.

The Sheriff will not be able to help you. Being a Police Officer from Wyoming and past Police Officer from Missouri. Once you agreed for this other person to take the calf and pay at a later time, you entered in a civil contract. I know that's probably not what you want to hear but the law. Police deal with criminal matters, lawyers deal with civil issues. You really have to trust another to do this type of transaction. I would personally be on his heals or picking up the calf. I did a deal like this for a 4H girl I really trusted her and her family as she paid for my steer after she raised it and it sold at the 4H sale, but you really have to trust that person. If your state requires a brand inspection done and it has not been done yet, the brand inspector might be able to help you out. I agree with Iowabeef, the longer this goes on, the harder it is going to be getting your money.

Nothing leaves my farm without a check that's bank certified or cash in my hand...prevention is key to bout everything

A brand inspector can help you out and is a licensed law enforcement individual-at least in our state.  But, if the calf is gone already, I would repo the calf regardless of who has it currently.  If it was stolen from you, you have a right to get it back. I know a calf producer who was in a similar situation and finally told the individual that he was coming to pick up the calf.  Got a check right away.  Don't worry about the whole "civil contract" thing because, you apparently don't have a written contract and contacting an attorney and taking the free advise might be a good thing.  If you still have the calf, sell it again. 

PS.  I have a sign hanging in my kitchen that says "trust your neighbors, but brand your cattle".  It's kinda the same feeling to expect payment when something is sold. No hard feelings that way.

rmbcows said:

How long should you give someone to get a check to you, for your calf, before you start doing something about it?   Big name = busy, I know, but we're talking months, and now I'm getting no response to my e-mails.  Should I worry?   Too late, already am.....   

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Where we are you can repo the calf and with the Sheriff's support. If you can prove ownership and non payment you can retrieve your calf. You do not have a contract if the other person entering into it has not honored their part. Later is not acceptable terms for a binding contract. Contracts need to be clear and have agreed upon terms for them to be durable. I am not a lawyer but have worked with many. I would definitely seek the advise of one.

Locally there was a family that did this routinely. So, the older gentleman got tired of waiting and had been beyong 6 months waiting for payment. One check they wrote bounced. He paid some young fellas to follow the folks around to a show. When the family left for the night the young guys brought their trailer in and took the calf back home. The family Didn't  have a leg to stand on he had a developed a paper trail. EMAILS are paper trail so are text messages. Electronic communications are used all the time in court. Print them all and start a binder.

I have never taken a calf with out paid in full and I have never sold one without paid in full. I would have said we will hold on to the calf an til you can find time to make payment or payments. Payment at a later date is not clear nor binding unless it is defined. IE Payment at a later date greed upon by both parties. Payment to be made within 6 months or animal return is required. etc etc.

SEEK LEGAL SUPPORT.

The Sheriff's Department might assist you in retrieving the calf if you can prove ownership and the calf is still on his property. That is called a civil standbye, some departments do them and some don't. We did not do them with my department in Missouri as we did not get wrapped up in civil issues. But in Wyoming my department does do them. As far as I was speaking, there is nothing criminal with this situation. I'm sure there is not a written contract, so proving the calf is yours could be difficult if the calf is not branded. The Brand Inspector is a Law Enforcement official in Wyoming for livestock laws, so if that calf is branded and he does not have paperwork from you transferring that calf to him, getting it back would be easy or if he admits the calf is yours it would be easy. But on the other hand if he denies the calf is yours, then you could be in for a long drawn out issue.

Legal advice is good as I'm not an attorney and this is a civil issue, so I would seek it out as long as it don't cost you too much for an attorney to consult with you. Good Luck! I would be careful on some of the things said, I would not step on to someone Else's property without a Law Enforcement Officer, that is trespassing or theft if you take the calf if that person calls the authorities, you can see where this would get sticky for you. Do it the rite way if the guy refuses to give you the calf back. Yes it is your calf, you still have to show that. The guy did not steal the calf from you, you guys agreed for him to pay at a later date, same thing if you buy a car and default on a payment, that is not a criminal issue. Take the rite steps and you will be fine, go over and speak with the guy first, if that don't work go talk to the brand inspectors and get legal advice.

these guys who pull this stuff know the law.

what are some things people do for contracts that protect us from people like this that rises to something the police will get involved in and keep it out of civil court?  essentially it is theft twice, once for the animal and twice for the time and money to deal with them which they are counting on to discourage you from going after them.

I agree with Knabe...and you should do something immediately.

I agree with Knabe, but Police have to follow the letter of the law. So many people get mad when the Police don't charge someone with a crime. Sorry but the Police don't make the laws, just enforces them. Police also are not above the law, if we make a false arrest cause we did not follow a law, that is our ass on the line for violating someone's civil rights which is a hefty criminal and civil liability. I been a Police Officer and Police Sergeant for the past 13 years now. To protect yourself, don't get rid of any calves to anyone that you even have the slightest doubt may not pay you without money in hand. Whether you have a contract written or verbal it is a civil contract. If someone was to lie to authorities about there not being an agreement and there was, that is filling a false police report which could be a felony depending on if the crime the person is alledging happened was a felony or not.

Long story short, these people make me as angry as you guys also but police still have to follow the laws. Talk to your congressmen if you want the laws changed.

In Wyoming cattle cannot move across county lines without brand papers.  They cannot move across state lines without health papers and brand papers.  The brand papers are prima facie evidence (presumed unless rebutted with other evidence) of ownership.  If you have a brand inspection done and transfer title to the animal with only a verbal promise of future payment, you may wind up chasing the purchaser around trying to get paid.  If a check bounces in Wyoming, there is a statute that allows treble damages after jumping through a couple of hoops and sending nasty letters via certified mail.  All of this is a time consuming hassle.  Easy thing to do is no bill of sale, no brand inspection and no relinquishing possession of the animal until the purchaser hands over suitable funds.  

rmbcows -- if the transaction occurred at your farm or ranch, you should be able to file suit in your own jurisdiction and at least get a judgment against the "purchaser."  If the purchase price was not a lot of money, look into small claims court.  If it was an expensive animal, consult legal counsel.  Sometimes a letter is all it takes to get your money.

Thanks for all the advice everyone, still mulling over my options.  Feeling quite foolish, that at my age, I let something like this happen.  Still can't believe they're trying to screw me over,  it's just got to be an oversight.  Doesn't it? 
I am glad I asked though... IF I'm wrong, I can see the steerplanet mafia is behind me.  <hero>

After everyone's comments, I'm wondering if all states have Cattlemen's Assocications?  We have a very active one here in OK and I think they work very closely with the Tx Rangers on solving cattle or equipment thefts.  It truly amazes me how brazen cattle rustlers are!  Years ago, thieves helped themselves to some bred heifers from a pasture that is practically in town.  When they didn't find them right away, I figured they'd never find them, but  over a year later, they found most of them in Missouri!  They had calved, the calves had been weaned and they were bred again.  I believe the rustler got to spend a few years in "the pen". 

GoWyo said:

In Wyoming cattle cannot move across county lines without brand papers.  They cannot move across state lines without health papers and brand papers.  The brand papers are prima facie evidence (presumed unless rebutted with other evidence) of ownership.  If you have a brand inspection done and transfer title to the animal with only a verbal promise of future payment, you may wind up chasing the purchaser around trying to get paid.  If a check bounces in Wyoming, there is a statute that allows treble damages after jumping through a couple of hoops and sending nasty letters via certified mail.  All of this is a time consuming hassle.  Easy thing to do is no bill of sale, no brand inspection and no relinquishing possession of the animal until the purchaser hands over suitable funds.  

rmbcows -- if the transaction occurred at your farm or ranch, you should be able to file suit in your own jurisdiction and at least get a judgment against the "purchaser."  If the purchase price was not a lot of money, look into small claims court.  If it was an expensive animal, consult legal counsel.  Sometimes a letter is all it takes to get your money.

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They don't enforce that I think the only thing to be weary of is getting pulled over

In a similar situation with a buyer from our sale this spring.  For about 3 months after the sale, I was being promised checks.  After text messages started going unanwered about mid summer, I decided to go a stop further.  In late August, I talked to his banker (lien search revealed where he banked...which is public information).  Told his banker on the telephone, and my customer via text...that i would be completing both a UCC and EFS filing on livestock on him.  This woke him up and I immediately got a return text with a promise.  Check is supposedly in the mail as we speak.  If not, filings will be completed on Monday.  Some states may still require the debtor sign the EFS form, which wouldn't work in this case...our state no longer requires a debtor signature.

For those not familiar with this system, the EFS (Effective Financing Statement) will put our company name on any cattle check that he gets from a salebarn, etc.  Of course then, he can't cash or deposit until we sign off on the check. 

I certainly don't like going to this extreme, but the guy owes us several thousand dollars.

On a similar note,my son has been waiting on his check from the county fair for about 60 days now.  How long is it taking for everyone else?  Seems like a long time.

The longer you wait the harder it is to ever get it.  A few of the big names are real bad about riding people on the money for a long time and sometimes don't pay at all.  Next time don't let them leave without a check even if you have to hold it for a month,you have something if it bounces later then you have some legal recourse.  If you are in Texas or parts of Oklahoma and are a member of the TSCRA they can be a huge help in settling these types of deals.

If an individual is going to take payments on any animal, the least you should do is have the purchaser sign a promissory note.  whomever is buying should not be insulted to be asked to sign one.  They can protect both parties and outline any and all terms of the sale.  good luck and I hope you get your money.  Oh, and by the way, promissory note templates are all over the internet so find one you like and have at it. 

Oh, I forgot to add, my mom and dad taught me from a young age that if you took something that wasn't yours and you didn't pay for that it was called STEALING.  (lol)