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Offline Dusty

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Involvement of Jocks/Traders
« on: March 07, 2008, 08:15:36 PM »
How does everyone feel about the involvement of jocks/traders in the club calf business.  I am looking for opinions from breeders, showers, parents, traders and spectators alike.
I personally feel they are good for the game.  They increase the level of competition and they beat a lot of highway to find good calves and get them into good hands.  A lot of breeders' top calves get sold to traders for good money, which is good if you're the breeder and you've got feed to buy and bills to pay.  Not so good if you're a kid trying to get a calf bought.  The traders however make sure the good calves get found and get to the big stage instead of just ending up at the county fair.  How much involvement is too much for a trader???  Anyways I am curious as to what everyone opinions are.

This should be interesting....
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Offline afhm

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Re: Involvement of Jocks/Traders
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2008, 08:36:53 PM »
I feel they make the show world go round.  They are experts in the areas of customer service and sales.  They are willing to do what most others won't i.e. travel all over the country and Canada looking for the best calves out there.  They are willing to trim feet, clip, fit, advise on feeding matters, give advice on showmanship, daily care, etc..  I know there are bad ones out there with their problems that give all of them a bad name, but it is that way in everything.  The breeders like them because they will put their calves in the best homes possible and will do all the follow up work to help the calf win as much as possible which in turn makes the breeders calves worth more the next year.

Offline SKF

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Re: Involvement of Jocks/Traders
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2008, 08:37:50 PM »
I have no problem dealing with jocks/traders because I don't have the time or ablity to travel all over to find a calf. I know I am paying a little more but in the end when you add up the gas and time it takes to find a calf it evens itself out.  We bought a steer a few years ago from Tony Austin and had a really good experience. We would have never found that calf on our own.

Offline fluffer

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Re: Involvement of Jocks/Traders
« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2008, 06:49:37 AM »
This is a hard question to answer, I think you have to look at each person individually.  There are traders and jocks out there that will do ANYTHING to win.  They will cheat, lie, etc. to buy, sell and win.  For example there is currently a thread on here about buying cattle sight unseen.  Do you have any idea how often your looking at a picture of a calf that has been edited?  I sure don't know how many myself, but I would be willing to bet there is a lot of them.  How about a trader that buys a calf that looks good, and the trader gets him home and sees that the calf is falling apart.  Is that trader willing to take a loss on the calf for his mistake of missreading the calf's potential?  I doubt it, the trader will probably find a "Freddie 4H'r that thinks that because the calf is out of (some great bull) that makes the calf a great one and that kid buys the calf and think he got such a deal only to show up at the fair with a cripple underweight calf.  The biggest problem I have are the jocks/traders/parents who will stop at nothing to win.  I don't mind traveling hundreds of miles to find a $20,000 steer, I don't like it when someone starts loading cattle up with pain meds, air, 7up and water, etc, etc, etc, to win.  While we are on that topic, what about breeding cattle that have incorrect ages to be competitive in the show ring?  I am just as guilty as the next guy about doing that.  But, then I realized that I was in the BEEF industry and promoting cattle under false pretences is not going in the right direction.  I have stepped out of the show ring for now and am breeding to performance cattle that work and using cows that work.  My calves have never looked better.

I know lots of jocks/traders/parents/etc. that are great people.  They are people who know a lot about cattle and I have a lot of respect for.  But we all know there are some out there that give "steerjock" a bad name.  I am sure none of those people are on here though  ;)

I would also like to tell any youngins that are on here that breed, raise, and show their own cattle- Good Job!  That is what it is all about- Learning and Responsibility!  :)  Some people loose sight of that.

Fluffer
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Offline red

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Re: Involvement of Jocks/Traders
« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2008, 08:46:27 AM »
I think they have their fit in certain shows. I know for local or BEST shows we do it ourselves. for a national show we'll hire someone. I however make sure they follow the rules that are in the book. Just because they're professionals doesn't mean they can bend the rules.
Personally, I love to see 4 people work in unison on a heifer/steer. It always amazes me that they can all be pulling a different leg but the all look the same.

Red
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Offline DLD

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Re: Involvement of Jocks/Traders
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2008, 08:48:14 AM »
I'm gonna cheat just a little on this one - this reply is from a post I made on another board, once upon a time. But it's still my view of the subject...

I used to think that it was really ridiculous how much markup the traders put on those calves - 'til I started doing a little of it myself. The time and expense involved in putting together a good set of calves and getting them ready for resale is so much greater than some folks ever realize, not to mention the services most traders provide (fitting, hoof trimming, etc...). Plus, there's the fact that not everyone has the ability and the inclination to do everything it takes to find the right cattle, match them with the right homes, keep an eye on them and try and keep the exhibitors on track with feeding and management, and do everything else it takes to help them succeed with their purchase, so that they might buy another one next year... Not to mention the fact that they're providing a similiar service to the breeders they buy cattle from, in not only buying cattle from them, but in making every effort to help those cattle succeed in the ring. When one wins, everybody wins.

I raise some of the calves I sell, I buy some of them from breeders, some from other traders. I sell some to the families that feed them, and I sell some to other traders. It's what makes this little ol' world go 'round.

You can say that the traders are too involved, and that the cattle have gotten too high, and I can't argue with you. But it's just how the game is played these days, and I don't see it changing anytime soon.



I know there's a balance
I see it when I swing past...
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Offline kanshow

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Re: Involvement of Jocks/Traders
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2008, 02:35:23 PM »
Jocks -
I think it's fine under most circumstances.   

I think the place where you have the most squawking about it are the local shows/county fair by the people who show ONE time per year.  Usually those folks have the worst cattle (or insert any other species) and really have no desire to improve on their genetics, etc.   In that respect - this topic ties in with my topic about show cattle prices.  People get in a mindset that they can't afford the jock/ or the pricey show heifer.   I'll disagree....  if a kid works hard enough and the right people see them doing it, something good will happen.    I recently heard of a  a guy that lets kids show his cattle and works some into different ownerships on them.  BUT he has some very strict guidelines about the kids putting forth the effort.   

Traders..  I'd prefer to say I'd use an agent for purchasing/selling cattle.   

« Last Edit: March 08, 2008, 04:34:55 PM by kanshow »

Offline chambero

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Re: Involvement of Jocks/Traders
« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2008, 03:18:42 PM »
A lot of people forget that every aspect of the cattle industry has "traders".

It takes a lot of year-round contact and effort to sell calves.  Time that a lot of breeders just don't have.

Griping about jocks is just a crutch for a lot of people that think you should be able to walk right in and win shows.  It takes years and years of experience + good calves + luck to get it done at the highest levels.  People that spend that time usually get called "jocks".

Offline kanshow

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Re: Involvement of Jocks/Traders
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2008, 03:23:09 PM »
A 'trader' can take the time to put together the right cattle for the buyer.    I know that as a small volume seller, we get better prices when we let someone else do the selling.  It just makes more sense.   

« Last Edit: March 08, 2008, 04:35:17 PM by kanshow »

Offline Telos

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Re: Involvement of Jocks/Traders
« Reply #9 on: March 09, 2008, 08:13:09 AM »

It's all about the kids in the junior shows but it take a team of people to perpare calves that can go out and be competitive. Jocks/Traders/ Ag Science Instructures/Parents and other family members... It is part of the equation for success.

I have always expressed my concerns for leveling out the playing field. The fact is, some are more fortunate then others. It is the ones that are not so fortunate that we should be willing to help if they have the desire and drive to compete.

It is not very likely that any one person can go out and win one of these major shows single handedly. One of the best lessons learned from competition is that the cooperation of others is vital for success. From the breeder to the the person showing and everyone in between...It comes down to who has the best team which can produce a winning calf.
Jack Jabara

Offline garybob

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Re: Involvement of Jocks/Traders
« Reply #10 on: March 09, 2008, 01:35:13 PM »
I have an opinion, but, it may offend some of you guys on here,so, I'll try to tone it down some. I feel they are a necessary part of the Show-cattle biz, as they are usually smart business people/entrepreneurs despite their Youth. However, some of their "antics" infront of/with the kids can be less than desired.

 They tend to promote underage drinking, but,parents also have a right to raise their children as they see fit. I guess, my Southern, Christian up-bringing kinda makes me shocked when i go to a major Show/sale and see folks openly letting their kids drink, especially in the company of the Traders/Jocks.

 I've also noticed that these Guys tend to give better "customer service" to the girls than they do to the boys. Y'all know what I'm talking about.

I developed a drinking problem in College, so, I hate to see a young person going down the same rough road.

Respectfully,

GB
« Last Edit: March 09, 2008, 02:08:41 PM by garybob »

Offline Dusty

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Re: Involvement of Jocks/Traders
« Reply #11 on: March 09, 2008, 01:46:45 PM »
I have an opinion, but, it may offend some of you guys on here,so, I'll "zip it".

Respectfully,

GB
I would love to hear your opinion.  I think that's one of the big problems with people now a days.  Everyboody is afraid they're going piss somebody else off so people don't say things that should be said.
"If you see a opossum, try and kill it, it's not a pet...."

Offline garybob

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Re: Involvement of Jocks/Traders
« Reply #12 on: March 09, 2008, 01:53:23 PM »
I have an opinion, but, it may offend some of you guys on here,so, I'll "zip it".

Respectfully,

GB
I would love to hear your opinion.  I think that's one of the big problems with people now a days.  Everyboody is afraid they're going piss somebody else off so people don't say things that should be said.
Dusty, I have to "hold myself back", as i've often offended people on here for my honest and direct posts. I sometimes forget that everyone has a right to THEIR opinion, NOT mine. Also, i forget that not everyone thinks "hair and color" on a Shorthorn needs to be "slick and red".

GB
« Last Edit: March 09, 2008, 01:56:31 PM by garybob »

Offline Jill

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Re: Involvement of Jocks/Traders
« Reply #13 on: March 09, 2008, 02:03:42 PM »
I have an opinion, but, it may offend some of you guys on here,so, I'll try to tone it down some. I feel they are a necessary part of the Show-cattle biz, as they are usually smart business people/entrepreneurs despite their Youth. However, some of their "antics" infront of/with the kids can be less than desired.

 They tend to promote underage drinking, but,parents also have a right to raise their children as they see fit. I guess, my Southern, Christian up-bringing kinda makes me shocked when i go to a major Show/sale and see folks openly letting their kids drink, especially in the company of the Traders/Jocks. I've also noticed that they tend to give better "customer service" to the girls than they do to the boys. Y'all know what I'm talking about.

I developed a drinking problem in College, so, I hate to see a young person going down the same rough road.

Respectfully,

GB

I know your going to find this hard to believe, but I agree with GB on this one.  I don't have a problem with drinking, but I think there is a time and place for everything.  Jr. shows and sales shouldn't be places I am afraid of what my kids are going to see. 

Offline garybob

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Re: Involvement of Jocks/Traders
« Reply #14 on: March 09, 2008, 02:16:17 PM »
I have an opinion, but, it may offend some of you guys on here,so, I'll try to tone it down some. I feel they are a necessary part of the Show-cattle biz, as they are usually smart business people/entrepreneurs despite their Youth. However, some of their "antics" infront of/with the kids can be less than desired.

 They tend to promote underage drinking, but,parents also have a right to raise their children as they see fit. I guess, my Southern, Christian up-bringing kinda makes me shocked when i go to a major Show/sale and see folks openly letting their kids drink, especially in the company of the Traders/Jocks. I've also noticed that they tend to give better "customer service" to the girls than they do to the boys. Y'all know what I'm talking about.

I developed a drinking problem in College, so, I hate to see a young person going down the same rough road.

Respectfully,

GB

I know your going to find this hard to believe, but I agree with GB on this one.  I don't have a problem with drinking, but I think there is a time and place for everything.  Jr. shows and sales shouldn't be places I am afraid of what my kids are going to see. 
Thank You, Jill. It just seems to Me, that everyone SHOULD (ideally) keep this a FAMILY-oriented set of activities.

Hope I haven't offended anyone, it's just the way I see it.

GB

 

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