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Offline -XBAR-

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IRISH BLACKS / IRISH REDS
« on: May 23, 2016, 08:55:37 AM »
Ran across a very interesting and informative piece about the Irish Black cattle breed.  I had vaguely herd of the breed prior but never really read much into them.  Does anyone here have any experience with the breed? I know their breeding philosophy is one I highly subscribe to.  Hoping maybe someone here has some personal experience to share?

http://www.cattletoday.com/archive/2008/April/CT1529.shtml

**Maurice Boney is worried about the beef business. He says the U.S. cow herd is too diverse, comprised of too many breeds and too many gene-trait combinations, to ever produce consistently high-quality products for consumers.
So he's spent much of his life trying to do something about it. Boney, who ranches near Johnstown, Colo., has been developing a linebred breed of cattle called Irish Blacks and Irish Reds for nearly 40 years. The breed, trademarked by Boney and marketed under an exclusive contractual agreement to a select but growing group of producers in 22 states, is gaining attention from cattle feeders, packers and restaurateurs as an answer to many of the industry's most pressing concerns. Derived primarily from Friesian genetics and a small amount of Black Angus genetics (35 years ago) from the old Revolution line, the breed has been close-herd line-bred for built-in genetic predictability to transmit quality genetics for fertility, production attributes and superior beef quality.

The genetic make-up of a large portion of today's beef herds is highly heterozygous, explains Boney. Because most cattle in the U.S. cow herd are heterozygous instead of homozygous for important production and carcass traits, they've lost their ability to transmit desirable genetics for carcass quality and fertility to their offspring. The result of all this heterozygosity, explains Boney, is genetic instability, inconsistency and diminishing beef quality.

The extremely broad and ever-expanding gene pools of today's cow herds will only ensure beef's quality continues to decline, he says. That's why we have concentrated on producing a highly concentrated, small genetic pool of cattle for correcting many of the problems the industry faces today. Less than two percent of cattle attain the Prime quality grade. The percentage of Choice-quality carcasses falls every year. Our program is built on correcting those problems by producing cattle with heightened predictability to transmit superior, proven genes to their offspring. Boney's efforts trace back to 1971 when he began implementing a linebreeding program built on the teachings of Dr. Jay Lush, a professor at Iowa State University and world-renowned geneticist.

Both Guy Gould and Maurice Boney believe there are six fundamental reasons for commercial producers to use Irish Blacks and Irish Reds: First, genetic purity. The breed has four decades of disciplined line-breeding behind it. It has had no other breed's blood introduced into its small gene pool, which has been the case in many pure breeds in the United States.

It's most important to understand that a percentage bull cannot, and will not, reproduce himself, says Boney. Simple arithmetic bears this out: calves sired by a halfblood bull only possess 25 percent of the blood that one is trying to make improvements with. Then consider one's chances when using a percentage bull whose gene pool is made up of several different breeds. The result of such matings will produce a broader more diverse gene pool with hundreds of different gene trait combinations.

Adds Boney: The big bonus for the commercial producer in using our purebred bulls is the resulting heifer calves. These F1 heifers should be retained......."


Offline cflem

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Re: IRISH BLACKS / IRISH REDS
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2016, 02:17:49 PM »
Didn't they used to call these cattle Amerifax?  They are Beef Friesen(Holstein ?) Angus crosses.

Offline aj

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Re: IRISH BLACKS / IRISH REDS
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2016, 02:18:53 PM »
I have a land lord that lives out by Strasburg Colorado that has a Irish Black bull. Thats all I know. Maybe I better look into it.
People can't believe we have such a big moon for such a small town.

Offline beebe

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Re: IRISH BLACKS / IRISH REDS
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2016, 02:50:01 PM »
I used an Irish Black bull for a few years.  He worked well but had a bit of an attitude problem.  I will probably use them again.  Very tender meat.

Offline oakview

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Re: IRISH BLACKS / IRISH REDS
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2016, 04:14:24 PM »
I must admit that when Irish Blacks and Irish Reds were brought up, I mistakenly thought of Welsh Blacks, something entirely different. 

In regards to perfect consistency in the beef population, it will never happen and I don't think that's all bad.  There are so many uses for beef, so many different tastes, ranging from prime rib to the cheapest select steak you can find.  People promote, and sell, everything from the most marbled beef imaginable to that with practically no marbling.  Those that purchase the extra lean beef evidently want to because that's what they buy.  Those that want the extra marbling want to purchase it for their own reasons.  Besides that, it would be virtually impossible to raise the same cattle everywhere in North America.  Lots or eared cattle in the south, try selling some of them in Iowa.  (or Canada?)  Pork used to be promoted as a consistent product.  In my opinion, the quality, and consistency of pork has gone down in the same proportion that the number of giant hog companies has increased.  Around here, we have to be very careful when we get pork to avoid the tasteless, dry garbage offered in some grocery stores.  In my opinion, we should strive to produce a consistent product ourselves, but can never expect that same product to be accepted universally.

Offline knabe

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Re: IRISH BLACKS / IRISH REDS
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2016, 04:40:27 PM »
Ohlde's Angus II's are from his old amerifax program.


the concept back then was to put ildeno on them cows and or sugar ray and other crossed up blacks that were too tall.  seen a lot of them back in the day.  very beautiful cattle. since ildeno was moderate, he nicked well with them.  amerifax's are beef friesian angus cross, 3/8 x 5/8. i think i loved the beef friesians better than the amerifax, especially after seeing  both the fullblood reds and blacks (both had white). one of the thickest calves i ever saw was a fullblood beef friesian calf that got pnuemonia and died.  skinned that sucker and grafted a calf on his mother.  crying shame. the first ali bull was named shandon ali.  his pic is on this site
"The generation that told us to question authority, has now become the Authority we cannot question!"

Offline knabe

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« Last Edit: May 23, 2016, 08:19:09 PM by knabe »
"The generation that told us to question authority, has now become the Authority we cannot question!"

Offline -XBAR-

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Re: IRISH BLACKS / IRISH REDS
« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2016, 12:16:30 PM »
Are y'all sure these are the same as Amerifax? I understand both originated from same 2 parent breeds but I don't think Irish Blacks are the same breed as Amerifax? 

There's a few topics on cattle forum about the Irish Blacks and most commenting seem to be very pleased with their results. One thing that really sticks out to me is how many cows these Irish Black Bulls can cover. Seems like many are attesting to these Bulls covering 50 or more cows within a 60 day season. 

Offline aj

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Re: IRISH BLACKS / IRISH REDS
« Reply #8 on: May 25, 2016, 07:48:31 AM »
I know when we had a HUBS Shorthorn bull in say 1978 we turned him in with 60 cows. We weren't that tight on calving dates but he had tremendous libido and was athletic. I think it was a dual purpose trait as far as being a aggressive breeder.
People can't believe we have such a big moon for such a small town.

Offline cbcr

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Re: IRISH BLACKS / IRISH REDS
« Reply #9 on: May 25, 2016, 11:00:00 AM »
The Irish Black / Irish Red are somewhat related to the Amerifax. 

The Irish Blacks and Reds are predominately Friesian with a little Angus blood. 

The Amerifax on the other hand is a 5/8 Angus x 3/8 Friesian.

Offline Duncraggan

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Re: IRISH BLACKS / IRISH REDS
« Reply #10 on: May 25, 2016, 11:30:37 AM »
Anyone have a picture?

Offline -XBAR-

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Re: IRISH BLACKS / IRISH REDS
« Reply #11 on: May 25, 2016, 01:33:33 PM »
http://www.originalirishblacks.com/whyirishblacks.html

http://www.gouldranch.com/

Here are the websites of the two originators. 

Some of the cattle are a littler courser than I personally prefer but I see them as an excellent cross to use over some unrelated F1s.  I think their ideology is one that would benefit us all.  The underlying principle being that if we want predictability, then we need to minimize the diversity within our own gene pool (each of our herds) in order to minimize the number of potential gene trait combinations. 

Offline librarian

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Re: IRISH BLACKS / IRISH REDS
« Reply #12 on: May 27, 2016, 09:53:55 PM »
I sold a Galloway bull to a farm that had a herd of Irish Blacks. They were doing an Irish Black/ Murray Grey cross. They went Galloway to bring the size down- the Irish Blacks were pretty tall.
I saw some of the Murray Grey x Irish Black calves- they were very muscular and really extra nice. Deep chocolate brown and about as meaty as anything I've ever seen. They seemed big for their age - I'd research birth weight before going further.
'Those who do not understand the old will not understand the new'. -farmers quote

Offline Duncraggan

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Re: IRISH BLACKS / IRISH REDS
« Reply #13 on: May 28, 2016, 01:24:22 PM »
The pictures on the Gould Ranch website of the herd bulls is very interesting.

The left side red bull and the centre black bull both have bald patches on their poll areas. All three have coarse and curly head hair, that is, the one in the posted picture on this thread as well. These are therefore very fertile bulls by definition!

These guys are on to something here.

Very interesting, in that if Shorthorns were 'discovered' now, this would be a very interesting business concept to follow, namely the registration of a 'type' and the consequent 'patent' or 'copyright' on the 'brand/breed'.

I believe that keeping genetics pure is the secret to hybrid vigour, all breeds should be known for specific traits.

Offline aj

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Re: IRISH BLACKS / IRISH REDS
« Reply #14 on: May 29, 2016, 08:28:52 AM »
Is there a lawyer firm that specializes in copyright stuff in cattle........trade marks.........Didn't Leachman trade mark a name on a line of cattle?
People can't believe we have such a big moon for such a small town.

 

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