Is it possible to AI and ET the same recip????????

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Ruebush Shorthorns

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So I am in the process of setting cows up for recips.  Have a buddy coming through who knows how to AI and was thinking maybe AI a recip or two on the day of the last GnRH shot, 2 days after lut and pulling the cidr.  Have a few cows with good bloodlines like Who Made Who and such, thought if I saw a good heat out of them might just skip the last GnRH and have them Ai'd instead.
Well this is where I ended up thinking of a new idea, even though it would be somewhat stupid in my eyes, is it possible?

Say you gave the second GnRH shot and Ai'd the recip and also put in an egg on the implant date.  Is their a reasonable chance for an AI calf and an ET calf to take?  I was thinking that the GnRH might throw the AI off or the actual implanting of the egg seven days after could cause the AI to not work.  Has anyone else ever thought this out before or am I missing something?  Seems somewhat feasible in my head.  I know some people chance on implanting multiple eggs and end up with two or even three calves in the same cow.  Was just wondering if you could say have a backup plan for if the egg didn't take or the AI didn't take?  Or as I think could happen end up with an AI and and ET calf both!

Would love to hear the feedback on this one, or if anyone has the science behind it to let me know if it is even possible.


Scott

 

Cowboy

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You "Could" do this, and even increade your chance of the later Embryo living -- """" HOWEVER """"

Your ultimate problem will result if you do indeed get both the A-I and ET to stay pregnant. By setting up twins in your cow -- you are asking for a disaster if they are Hfr and Bull -- as the embryo MUST go into the same side she ovulated on, which would already have the A-I embryo there growing. If you get a hfr - bull combo, you have just created a Free-Martin hfr.

Do you want to take the risk??

Not me --- ain't gonna happen here! Sure it might actually increase the chance of pregnancy, but the risk of disaster is too great to make it worth while. Think it thru and you will understand!

Terry

Just -- "Don't do it!"
 

Jenny

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this actually happened to us......
we CIDER about 60 head at a time and about 20 are receipts and the rest we A.I. on standing heat; there are just a very few solid black cows that have lost their tags but have distinguishing characteristics that set them apart, so figured we could keep track of which is which.
this one good black cows A.I.ed to a clubby bull, then a week later when the e.t. guy came to put in embryos, somehow she got shut in the receipt pen and got an embryo.
and yes, the disaster happened, of course, doesn't it always???
the e.t. cal, a pb simmi,  was a heifer and the clubby sired calf was a bull.

was not a good thing.
 

Ruebush Shorthorns

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I wasn't thinking about actually doing this, was just more interested if it was just possible in the first place.  We actually have a preg right now where the egg split and one calf was sexed as a bull and the other looked to be a heifer but the guy who checked here said it looked like the reprodutive parts were a bit out of line.  Lower like where the scrotum would be on a bull calf.  Of well, I guess I will find out when September gets here.  I have known of putting in multiple lower grade eggs and hoping for one to stick and having multiple births that way and that sparked my intrest on the AI and Et the same cow.

Thanks for your insight Terry.  I figured if you saw this post you would be the one to know if it is actually feasible.

Scott
 

Cattledog

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Ruebush Shorthorns said:
I wasn't thinking about actually doing this, was just more interested if it was just possible in the first place.  We actually have a preg right now where the egg split and one calf was sexed as a bull and the other looked to be a heifer but the guy who checked here said it looked like the reprodutive parts were a bit out of line.  Lower like where the scrotum would be on a bull calf.  Of well, I guess I will find out when September gets here.  I have known of putting in multiple lower grade eggs and hoping for one to stick and having multiple births that way and that sparked my intrest on the AI and Et the same cow.

Thanks for your insight Terry.  I figured if you saw this post you would be the one to know if it is actually feasible.

Scott

If an egg split wouldn't it have the exact same genetics as the other half?  I would think that this would eliminate the possibility of having a bull and a heifer.
 

Cattledog

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Zach said:
Identical Twins of different sexes are possible.

I know of Turner's Syndrome in humans that can cause this.  Essentially, if you have and embryo that is XY(Male) and it would split you would expect to have two XY(male) embryos result.  With turner's syndrome, I believe the Y falls off(there has to be better term for this) and you are left with an embryo that is X.  This isn't good, female reproductive parts are usually missing.  Is this the same in cattle or am I way off on my thought process?
 

Cowboy

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As far as having an Embryo split into two viable fetuses -- yes this happens quite often. These will result in what they call IDENTICAL twins, always of same sex and are really hard to tell apart -- with VERY small if any differences as they both came from the exact copy of genes.

On the other hand -- as far as I can tell you all -- it would be impossible to get a set of divided twins and not have them both the same sex. Deformities may occur in one or both making them apear to be different, but to have a real bull and a real hfr come out from a split embryo would be theoreticly impossible.

Many cows will double ovulate from the same ovary -- or even from each ovary. This is where the hfr-bulls twins come from -- as they are from two seperate oocytes and are fertilized as individuals. This is a really really LAYMEN explanation of the whole process, if I were to try and type all the real names in here, my fat fingers and aging eyes would REALLY screw it up !! hehehehe

Take over KNABE --


Terry
 
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