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Offline savaged

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LA200 Injection Site Swelling
« on: September 20, 2008, 10:21:29 PM »

Have a heifer that we are showing in some fall shows.  After our fair she got pretty loose and developed a cough so I treated her (successfully) with LA200.  Problem is, now she has a couple of very large knots in her neck at the injection sites.  My question is, are these fluid filled and can be drained, or are we stuck with them until they go away on their own?

Offline DL

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Re: LA200 Injection Site Swelling
« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2008, 11:09:21 PM »
LA200 like all tetracyclines is extremely irritating to tissues - in fact it is rarely used in injectable form in humans because of its serious irritating properties and when given by injection is most often used to cause sclerosis of pleural membranes (covering of lungs) when they are causing pleural effusions (fluid between pleura) most often from cancer  - so irritating to tissue - what you see is inflammatory /irritation response to LA200 - assuming you used a clean needle and reasonably clean technique it should just be irritation not infection and should go away with time - hope you used the non show side - if you are possessed warm compresses may hasten the lump disappearing and make the heifer feel better  ;) bovine hydrotherapy
« Last Edit: September 20, 2008, 11:10:02 PM by DL »
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Offline Dusty

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Re: LA200 Injection Site Swelling
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2008, 01:41:44 AM »
That is the reason that when I have to give a show calf a shot I give it to them in the rear quarter.  If it leaves a bump you don't see it cuz of the hair.  A shot in the neck that leaves a knot is impossible to hide.
"If you see a opossum, try and kill it, it's not a pet...."

Offline Jill

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Re: LA200 Injection Site Swelling
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2008, 01:21:49 PM »
We don't use LA200 unless it is the only option, it almost always leaves a big knot and can last for a long time.

Offline stick

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Re: LA200 Injection Site Swelling
« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2008, 01:58:54 PM »
That is the reason that when I have to give a show calf a shot I give it to them in the rear quarter.  If it leaves a bump you don't see it cuz of the hair.  A shot in the neck that leaves a knot is impossible to hide.
Doesn't this go against the Beef Quality Assurance guidelines??

Offline jlynch

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Re: LA200 Injection Site Swelling
« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2008, 02:31:30 PM »
LA200 like all tetracyclines is extremely irritating to tissues - in fact it is rarely used in injectable form in humans because of its serious irritating properties and when given by injection is most often used to cause sclerosis of pleural membranes (covering of lungs) when they are causing pleural effusions (fluid between pleura) most often from cancer  - so irritating to tissue - what you see is inflammatory /irritation response to LA200 - assuming you used a clean needle and reasonably clean technique it should just be irritation not infection and should go away with time - hope you used the non show side - if you are possessed warm compresses may hasten the lump disappearing and make the heifer feel better  ;) bovine hydrotherapy

The hydrotherapy works DL, followed up with rubbing on Absorbine on the knot(s).  The knots never go away as fast as you want them to!  As Jill said too, I wouldn't use the stuff on a show calf unless it was the only option.       
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Offline simtal

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Re: LA200 Injection Site Swelling
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2008, 03:51:17 PM »
That is the reason that when I have to give a show calf a shot I give it to them in the rear quarter.  If it leaves a bump you don't see it cuz of the hair.  A shot in the neck that leaves a knot is impossible to hide.
Doesn't this go against the Beef Quality Assurance guidelines??

yes


a vet should be able to cut out/drain the knot and suture it up nice if it is really noticable
....Now, they always, in the direst of circumstances, every time liberalism fails, which is every time it's tried, at some point you reach a catastrophe.....

Offline DL

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Re: LA200 Injection Site Swelling
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2008, 04:36:32 PM »
That is the reason that when I have to give a show calf a shot I give it to them in the rear quarter.  If it leaves a bump you don't see it cuz of the hair.  A shot in the neck that leaves a knot is impossible to hide.
Doesn't this go against the Beef Quality Assurance guidelines??

yes


a vet should be able to cut out/drain the knot and suture it up nice if it is really noticable

HUH?? Surgery, although minor, for a cosmetic issue that will be cured by tincture of time and hydrotherapy - Flying Carp! nip and tuck for cattle  :o :o :o

IMHO no vet in their right mind would cut out or drain a "knot" that is a normal reaction to an injection of an OTC approved drug -

maybe a better future approach would be to talk with your vet about getting a less irritation prescription drug for pneumonia
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Offline chambero

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Re: LA200 Injection Site Swelling
« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2008, 04:52:15 PM »
We had to tell our vet we don't mind using the expensive "stuff".  It's just such common practice to use LA-200.  Giving it intravenously is the only way our vet uses it now. 

We had one steer a few years ago that managed to rip out his cheek on a hook on a chain that was left hanging in the barn (think giant fish hook).  Vet gave him LA-200 after stitches and he got one of "those" knots.  It stayed for weeks and I took the calf back to him.  That one had abscessed I guess because the vet was able to drain a lot of fluid from that particular one and it finally went away.

Offline Dusty

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Re: LA200 Injection Site Swelling
« Reply #9 on: September 22, 2008, 05:01:25 PM »

[/quote]

Flying Carp! nip and tuck for cattle  :o :o :o


[/quote]

It happens....  Sometimes for stuff a lot bigger than a little knot....
"If you see a opossum, try and kill it, it's not a pet...."

Offline DL

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Re: LA200 Injection Site Swelling
« Reply #10 on: September 22, 2008, 06:05:51 PM »

It happens....  Sometimes for stuff a lot bigger than a little knot....

Flying Carp! nip and tuck for cattle  :o :o :o


OH believe me I am well aware of that - you say that animal can't have white? needs more butt? isn't thick enough? can't have horns? needs 2 big testicles? carp actually fly over everywhere....sometime it's raining carp! Holy Carp batman nip and tuck to the left
« Last Edit: September 22, 2008, 07:47:39 PM by DL »
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Offline dori36

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Re: LA200 Injection Site Swelling
« Reply #11 on: September 22, 2008, 07:08:16 PM »
That is the reason that when I have to give a show calf a shot I give it to them in the rear quarter.  If it leaves a bump you don't see it cuz of the hair.  A shot in the neck that leaves a knot is impossible to hide.
Doesn't this go against the Beef Quality Assurance guidelines??

yes


a vet should be able to cut out/drain the knot and suture it up nice if it is really noticable

HUH?? Surgery, although minor, for a cosmetic issue that will be cured by tincture of time and hydrotherapy - Flying Carp! nip and tuck for cattle  :o :o :o

IMHO no vet in their right mind would cut out or drain a "knot" that is a normal reaction to an injection of an OTC approved drug -

maybe a better future approach would be to talk with your vet about getting a less irritation prescription drug for pneumonia

Like my favorite - Nuflor?  Frankly, if i'm keeping a critter for breeding, I put everything in the rump - never mind BQA.  I'm not worrying about getting docked for injection site blemishes at the slaughter plant!  And by the time they're not breeding anymore, I don't really care if they have blemishes in the round.
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Offline afhm

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Re: LA200 Injection Site Swelling
« Reply #12 on: September 23, 2008, 07:09:50 AM »
Next time give them a shot of Dex at the same time. Sometimes I will mix a littl edex in with the la 200 shot (a cc or 2).  That will normally take care of any swelling.

Offline DL

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Re: LA200 Injection Site Swelling
« Reply #13 on: September 23, 2008, 08:54:29 AM »
Next time give them a shot of Dex at the same time. Sometimes I will mix a littl edex in with the la 200 shot (a cc or 2).  That will normally take care of any swelling.

First of all using dexamethasone in that manner is extra label and unless your vet told you to do it you are not following the law re ELDU (please don't remind me that most of you don't care)

Second, dexamethasone is a glucocorticoid - no only does it decrease inflammation but also may increase susceptibility to some infections - so you may have no lump but you also may have wasted $ on your LA200

Third I will reiterate - if the lump is a problem maybe like chambero you go for the high priced antibiotics for the next go round
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Offline simtal

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Re: LA200 Injection Site Swelling
« Reply #14 on: September 23, 2008, 11:24:52 AM »
That is the reason that when I have to give a show calf a shot I give it to them in the rear quarter.  If it leaves a bump you don't see it cuz of the hair.  A shot in the neck that leaves a knot is impossible to hide.
Doesn't this go against the Beef Quality Assurance guidelines??

yes


a vet should be able to cut out/drain the knot and suture it up nice if it is really noticable

HUH?? Surgery, although minor, for a cosmetic issue that will be cured by tincture of time and hydrotherapy - Flying Carp! nip and tuck for cattle  :o :o :o

IMHO no vet in their right mind would cut out or drain a "knot" that is a normal reaction to an injection of an OTC approved drug -

maybe a better future approach would be to talk with your vet about getting a less irritation prescription drug for pneumonia

its not complicated really, lidocaine-scapel-sutures  5 minute job.  You think a vet would turn down business? 
....Now, they always, in the direst of circumstances, every time liberalism fails, which is every time it's tried, at some point you reach a catastrophe.....

 

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