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Offline ALTSIMMY 79

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Re: Maternal Simi bull that will add hair
« Reply #15 on: December 31, 2010, 09:48:49 PM »
I'm no expert but ill agree , the dream ons are far from the most maternal critters on the range ! I have some older black genetics that flat out spank my dream ons in everything except phenotype !

Offline firesweepranch

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Re: Maternal Simi bull that will add hair
« Reply #16 on: December 31, 2010, 10:13:32 PM »
OK, I'll comment. All of our Dream On's are EXCELLENT mothers and great milkers. Most of our small herd has some dream on influence in them somewhere in the last 3 generations of the pedigree. If Dream On is so bad, why are there SO MANY of them out there, and everyone groping for his semen? Why does he have the top numbers in registrations? Yes, his EPD is low, but we have to remember the EPD only tells part of the story. That is poor mothers thrown in with good mothers alike. Look at his API, that tells you the overall picture and anything over 100 is good. I would never shy from buying a Dream On influenced heifer, we have just had great luck with them...
BTW, our good Built Right cow (by Dream On) is a true example, weans a big calf (twice now) and has a perfect udder. Bred back as a three year old on her 45 day calf heat via AI to STF Dominator! We moved her from an April 1st calver to a End of February calver (due Feb 27th). That says something about fertility...
All of our Dream On influenced heifers caught on the first AI date this Spring, the two that are not Dream On did not; just a point.
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Offline thebulllady

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Re: Maternal Simi bull that will add hair
« Reply #17 on: December 31, 2010, 10:46:57 PM »
As far as hair is concerned, Dream on wouldn't be my first choice.. or even fourth or fifth.  My DO cows are pretty slick. 

My Mo Better daughter has good hair, and I've got a DO / Triple C Ponderosa Rey heifer that has TONS of hair.  My entire calf crop this past year has been exceptionally hairy... the bull was Perfection (Miss Break) x Mo Town, and keep in mind, I'm in Texas. 

Offline CAB

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Re: Maternal Simi bull that will add hair
« Reply #18 on: January 01, 2011, 12:22:56 AM »
As far as hair is concerned, Dream on wouldn't be my first choice.. or even fourth or fifth.  My DO cows are pretty slick.  

My Mo Better daughter has good hair, and I've got a DO / Triple C Ponderosa Rey heifer that has TONS of hair.  My entire calf crop this past year has been exceptionally hairy... the bull was Perfection (Miss Break) x Mo Town, and keep in mind, I'm in Texas.  

  When you say "Perfection", are you talking about the Simi bull that Limestone ranch own,SF  Mr. Perfectionist?
« Last Edit: January 01, 2011, 12:37:11 AM by CAB »

Offline AAOK

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Re: Maternal Simi bull that will add hair
« Reply #19 on: January 01, 2011, 01:45:10 PM »

Why not go with the best?  Meyer 734
[/color]

Offline CCW

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Re: Maternal Simi bull that will add hair
« Reply #20 on: January 01, 2011, 01:56:32 PM »
I don't get too worried about my Simmentals milk EPDs. The breed as a whole milks plenty good and when mated to other beef  breeds they will always add milk in my opinion

Offline Possum Trot Ranch

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Re: Maternal Simi bull that will add hair
« Reply #21 on: January 01, 2011, 02:38:50 PM »

Why not go with the best?  Meyer 734
[/color]

Meyer 734 may be very famous and an excellent choice for crossing on Angus if you can afford the semen, he is not IMO a good choice for using on purebred simmental.  Too straight in rear legs, too much white. 

Offline kanshow

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Re: Maternal Simi bull that will add hair
« Reply #22 on: January 01, 2011, 03:26:54 PM »
Quote
Posted by: Possum Trot Ranch 
Insert Quote
Quote from: AAOK on Today at 02:45:10 PM

Why not go with the best?  Meyer 734[/color]


Meyer 734 may be very famous and an excellent choice for crossing on Angus if you can afford the semen, he is not IMO a good choice for using on purebred simmental.  Too straight in rear legs, too much white.   
  And Scurs.. 

Offline SEA

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Re: Maternal Simi bull that will add hair
« Reply #23 on: January 02, 2011, 09:40:34 AM »
Quote
Posted by: Possum Trot Ranch 
Insert Quote
Quote from: AAOK on Today at 02:45:10 PM

Why not go with the best?  Meyer 734[/color]


Meyer 734 may be very famous and an excellent choice for crossing on Angus if you can afford the semen, he is not IMO a good choice for using on purebred simmental.  Too straight in rear legs, too much white.   
  And Scurs.. 
  And gutless, and will take away milk!  I used him years ago on PB Simm's when Meyer 734 was a pup!  The first semen I bought was $15/straw!  I was trying for "blacks", got grey "Rat Tails".  I was young, and dumb.  Ended up culling the females!

You need to use Meyer 734 on good milking, deep ribbed, smaller framed, easy fleshing, Angus/Maine cross cows with allot of muscle.  He will clean-up front end, straighten legs, add square hip and level top, and phenotype (or the LOOK), for the show ring. 

I have gone back to breeding to him and his sons, but use him much more selectively and on way different cows.

Offline SEA

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Re: Maternal Simi bull that will add hair
« Reply #24 on: January 02, 2011, 11:38:54 AM »
Any thoughts on which simi bull would be the best choice to make females while adding hair? Thanks.

C'com CAB  ;D.   Don't get me wrong  ;), I love Simmental cattle (clapping), but...

You know that a Simmental bull to add hair is an Oxy-Moron!    (lol)   <beer>

Offline simmangus45

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Re: Maternal Simi bull that will add hair
« Reply #25 on: January 02, 2011, 01:39:45 PM »
OK, I'll comment. All of our Dream On's are EXCELLENT mothers and great milkers. Most of our small herd has some dream on influence in them somewhere in the last 3 generations of the pedigree. If Dream On is so bad, why are there SO MANY of them out there, and everyone groping for his semen? Why does he have the top numbers in registrations? Yes, his EPD is low, but we have to remember the EPD only tells part of the story. That is poor mothers thrown in with good mothers alike. Look at his API, that tells you the overall picture and anything over 100 is good. I would never shy from buying a Dream On influenced heifer, we have just had great luck with them...
BTW, our good Built Right cow (by Dream On) is a true example, weans a big calf (twice now) and has a perfect udder. Bred back as a three year old on her 45 day calf heat via AI to STF Dominator! We moved her from an April 1st calver to a End of February calver (due Feb 27th). That says something about fertility...
All of our Dream On influenced heifers caught on the first AI date this Spring, the two that are not Dream On did not; just a point.

I will give Dream On credit in respect to a couple of things, Phenotype, carcass merit, and birth weight.  Phenotypically they are some of the most eye appealing simmental cattle ever made and that is one of the biggest reasons why he has been used so heavily and was in such demand.  That in combination with his low birth weight status and carcass potential made him a good choice in alot of people.  Now, lets think in terms of real world cattle that have to work for a living and survive in harsh, commercial oriented programs and admit that reproduction is two to ten times more profitable than carcass traits to the bottom line of a ranch.  We have had well over 80 head of Dream On sires sons on our bull test over that past few years. They were good looking cattle that ultrasounded well but consistently they were our poorest when it came to semen checking time with several small scrotal bulls and numerous sons that never would pass semen check.  Also their sisters were the poorest in terms of conception when we preg checked them as yearling heifers.  I additionally question the milking ability on a few of the daughtrers that are now in production.  For those reasons we will never use dream on again.  That is not to say that some of the Dream On sons are not good because Dream On is only half of the equatuion in his resulting sons.  In fact I have used Built Right, a Dream On son and love the daughters and plan on using him heavily in the future.  In summary I just cannot call Dream On a maternal bull especially when "maternal" is defined by more than milk.  In real world ranch conditions where feed resources are not always abundant he did not pass the test for us anyway.

Offline j3cattleco

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Re: Maternal Simi bull that will add hair
« Reply #26 on: January 02, 2011, 03:03:50 PM »
This is the cow that CAB was referring to when he first poised this question.  She is stout, sound, huge bodied and milks like a jersey.  The one thing she seems to do is pull the hair out of one.  So we need something that will try and add hair, she should help with just about everything else.  We have a carney man cow out of her that is flat out good, so we think we need to flush her something else maternal for maybe show heifers or just replacements.  Also would probably like to flush her something where sexed semen is available. 

Joshua
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Offline kanshow

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Re: Maternal Simi bull that will add hair
« Reply #27 on: January 02, 2011, 07:17:25 PM »
Our Mo Better calves seem to have decent hair and more of it than their dams.   They are maternal enough..     He seems to add bone but he won't help a front. 

Offline buck33

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Re: Maternal Simi bull that will add hair
« Reply #28 on: January 02, 2011, 09:07:02 PM »
Here's a bull that you can view in Denver his name is Flashback, he is a Who Made Who X Meyer734(Angus)  Should bring a lot of options to breeders wanting to use clean pedigree, and still maintain hair muscle and a look.  Also has a star on his head and some white underneath, so could get a few baldies.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2011, 09:26:01 PM by buck33 »

 

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