Question!!! I have a GOOD black point taken heifer but she has a very slight monkey mouth I think?? Her chin comes out under her nose just a smidge. Obviously I would not market her for a breeding heifer because of this and have made it known to the people that like her. So if she showed as a terminal market heifer would she be discounted in the showring for this problem??? I would think if she is in a market class this wouldn't be a problem??? So any thoughts on this issue???? Let me have it if you think she should go to the salebarn??? But she is really good otherwise.
Monkey mouth heifer
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Earthmover
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Show her or sell her. I had a buddy drug around a monkey mouth steer that was also a tongue hanger. Surprisingly he did well, even was Grand at county fair. Only one judge said anything all year long. It was reallly noticeable and he said some one had better check the genetics.
Telos
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The afflicted calves are usually very good and sometime better then their contemporaries in phenotype. A spectrum of severity comes with this and your calf is probably mild. I'd be more interested to know how she is bred on the maternal side too. That's because I'm curious to know who the culprit or culprits are. Don't think there is enough data to know if it takes both parent to produce this condition.
hokiefan99
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I've got one that is a Mossy oak out of a Dr. Hook. Had one couple of years ago, Alias out of WMW go figure
knabe
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anything with cunia in it is a suspect. anything with cunia on the top and bottom has potential to be afflicted. if he's just on one side of the pedigree, the animal has potential to be a carrier. i don't know of another carrier. i believe other breeds have the problem as well as it's been reported for an awful long time. course if you buy from reputable breeders, you will never have monkey mouth (wrong). it would be nice to know if cunia's mother or father was the carrier as there are other animals out of cunia's sire.
Show Heifer
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Telos said:
Geesh, now I suppose people will be trying to breed THC monkey mouth cattle. wonderful. just wonderful.
knabe
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Show Heifer said:
it's actually debatable that carriers have a look and may have other attributes like low birth weight in a carrier status. there is probably a lot of variable expression of the gene in both the carrier and afflicted and we just are not aware of it.
OH Breeder
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We have one out of Get It Done cow and Who Made Who very slight MM.
knabe
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shufly said:
hokiefan99
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If I am not mistaken Brad noted in My Turns video that there have been no reports of any MM from him. I had not heard it mentioned from any other breeder
CAB
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I think that it would depend on the opinion of the the judge whether or not the MM would be taken into consideration on placings in a market class. If I were judging and noticed a slight MM I would have to take it into consideration. It would get down to whether or not there was another animal in the class that was close to it in quality. If the MM calf blows every calf out in the class, it wins. If it is a toss up and close, another calf wins B/C I can find a flaw, (the slight MM). JMO.
Cowboy
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The common denominator to all the above mentied pedigres is non other than -- WMW -- who is sired by Take Charge -- who was the absoute worse structured criter of the early 90's -- !
The bottom line here is one other bull -- in ALL of the pedigrees above at least oce -- and that is Powr PLant.
Power PLant will put more monkey's on the ground than any other bull -- even Cunia is hard pressedto beat him in that deal. If you cross the two tgether even remotely --you will have a monkey mking machine.
The one cross above -- WMW x Witch Doctor -- both are of course POwerplant breeding.
Foreplay's bred to anything with PP in them will absolutely mkeone -- I know, mine have. Chill Factor is another one who will do it -- there are 4 direct crosses to Cunia in his 4 generation pedigree being a Cold Front (Cunia x a Cunia dughter). The list goes on and on.
What is REALLY bad is when you get a MM calf that is also a Spastic Pariesis afflicted one. No choise but to destroy those.
There are several sires around today, as well as , many in today's pedigrees that are trouble -- but I do think alot of people are getting amre aware of those. Hate to say it -- but it seems that almost all "GREAT" bulls not only sired some great cattle that had alot going for them, but along with that came some just as Great deffects.
A carefull eye to structure and lineage will go along way in weeding this out!
Terry
The bottom line here is one other bull -- in ALL of the pedigrees above at least oce -- and that is Powr PLant.
Power PLant will put more monkey's on the ground than any other bull -- even Cunia is hard pressedto beat him in that deal. If you cross the two tgether even remotely --you will have a monkey mking machine.
The one cross above -- WMW x Witch Doctor -- both are of course POwerplant breeding.
Foreplay's bred to anything with PP in them will absolutely mkeone -- I know, mine have. Chill Factor is another one who will do it -- there are 4 direct crosses to Cunia in his 4 generation pedigree being a Cold Front (Cunia x a Cunia dughter). The list goes on and on.
What is REALLY bad is when you get a MM calf that is also a Spastic Pariesis afflicted one. No choise but to destroy those.
There are several sires around today, as well as , many in today's pedigrees that are trouble -- but I do think alot of people are getting amre aware of those. Hate to say it -- but it seems that almost all "GREAT" bulls not only sired some great cattle that had alot going for them, but along with that came some just as Great deffects.
A carefull eye to structure and lineage will go along way in weeding this out!
Terry
Telos
Well-known member
Don't know if there is a more influential bull in our showring world other then Cunia. Since most of these good clubby and purebred bulls are saturated with his genetics, he has become the "Achilles Heel" of show cattle genetics.
Power Plant can be real tricky when you breed them. It is just safer IMO to keep the Maine genetics out of the equation and use more Angus influence for replacements. Then you can breed those back to these clubby bulls more sucessfully. JMO.
Power Plant can be real tricky when you breed them. It is just safer IMO to keep the Maine genetics out of the equation and use more Angus influence for replacements. Then you can breed those back to these clubby bulls more sucessfully. JMO.
