Myostatin gene

wiseguy · Jul 22, 2019

redcows said:
I have heard Buster's sire, Eionmor Ideal 69F was a carrier. If so, it's likely further back than that. He does have a common sire on both sides of the pedigree, but it could have come from any ancestor.

I have always been told that his maternal grand sire GAFA Mochican was the starting point. About 3-4 years ago I contacted the American Shorthorn Association about listing myostatin as a genetic defect. I still have the email, but basically the board stated that it WOULD NOT be listing it as a defect, but would provide testing for anyone that wanted it. I have had several tested over the past 3 years and I believe that you can tell by looking at the calf if they are carriers. They usually are more descript in their muscle shape, and are slightly finer boned.

jaimiediamond · Jul 22, 2019

https://csa.digitalbeef.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=_animal&file=_animal&search_value=&animal_registration=F624382&member_id=

oakview · Jul 22, 2019

We showed in Louisville the year G-9 was shown as a 2 year old. We were told by the present owner that he was assured by the breeder that he was not a Maine cross. The rumor that we heard at that time was that he was sired by Capone. I have semen from Capone, Cunia, G-9, 2975 and Ransom 179. I'll bet something could be figured out with present testing methods, as if it will make a difference today. I seem to remember that in the old literature, Dollar II was mentioned as a possible carrier of double muscling. I used him back when it first became legal and really liked the results. He crossed really well on my Ultimate Type daughters. There's the potential for so much outside breeding in the backgrounds of most every breed. Finding a single culprit like Improver for TH could be an exercise in futility. Ayatollah was widely used in Canada. Maybe he's the bad guy for Myostatin.

wiseguy · Jul 22, 2019

jaimiediamond said:
https://csa.digitalbeef.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=_animal&file=_animal&search_value=&animal_registration=F624382&member_id=

So your contention is that it goes back to Ideal 69F's dam? Has anyone ever tested Gafa Mochican? I have to admit Mochican sure looks like a carrier..... I was told he was extremely heavily muscled and really orange in color. I have no idea and I'm not on a witch hunt. I will say that I asked Dr. Bert Moore about this years ago and he thought I was on the right track.

I'm with X-bar on this one. I think its not much of an issue. They jumped the gun on DS and have decided to play a wait and see game on myo. I would be suprised if 5% of the current breeders in the states even knew what it was.

mark tenenbaum · Jul 22, 2019

Mohican sure reminds me of Strathore Irish Magic-There is one common thread between these two and the bulls X Bar listed-The superflag blood-Hey Medium Rare do you think I might be on the right track-he did make them bigger and "variations there of" were used alot in that respect. O0

wiseguy · Jul 22, 2019

mark tenenbaum said:
Mohican sure reminds me of Strathore Irish Magic-There is one common thread between these two and the bulls X Bar listed-The superflag blood-Hey Medium Rare do you think I might be on the right track-he did make them bigger and "variations there of" were used alot in that respect. O0

I have also had discussions about Rb eagle 148th and 255th. I have been told these bulls expressed a different Myostatin variant. I have never used any of these genetics, but the believed culprit was said to be Chuck O Luck Real Silver. Again none of this is confirmed.

Medium Rare · Jul 22, 2019

There are carriers that do not have Gafa Mochican in their published pedigree. I don't know if semen even exists on him to have it tested. The Lady cow happens to be in at least one of carriers that do not go back to Mochican.

You'd have to ask Okotoks about Super Flag. I have a really nice and heavy muscled bred heifer sired by Super Flag that I need to test, but it's because there's a known carrier on the bottom side of her pedigree. The Lady cow happens to appear in the pedigree behind this particular known carrier as well.

I assume there are multiple sources as several full blood maine bulls were used honestly as well as dishonestly. If the Maine breeders or their Association would reveal their knowledge it would be easier to sort out the pedigrees where they were used honestly. It'd still be a puzzle though as we're talking about bulls that were used in the late 60s and early 70s and they weren't always put on the registration papers.

Either way, if you guys would start testing parentage on some of these old rumored bulls with whatever is left over in the tip of a staw after using one we could all watch the ASA play musical chairs with our epds as single step goes nuts trying to sort it out.

RyanChandler · Jul 22, 2019

mark tenenbaum said:
Mohican sure reminds me of Strathore Irish Magic-There is one common thread between these two and the bulls X Bar listed-The superflag blood-Hey Medium Rare do you think I might be on the right track-he did make them bigger and "variations there of" were used alot in that respect. O0

(clapping)

knabe · Jul 22, 2019

mark tenenbaum said:
According to a number of people who would know-G-9 was thought to be a Cunia son or grandson.Which would be great with me.

Until you found out cunia is a monkey mouth and spastic pareisis carrier.

Okotoks · Jul 22, 2019

-XBAR- said:
mark tenenbaum said:

Mohican sure reminds me of Strathore Irish Magic-There is one common thread between these two and the bulls X Bar listed-The superflag blood-Hey Medium Rare do you think I might be on the right track-he did make them bigger and "variations there of" were used alot in that respect. O0

Click to expand...

(clapping)

It's not Mandalong Super Flag he had 1352 offspring in the ASA and 673 in Canada, there are numerous cattle in the Canadian herd book that trace to him between 30 and 60 times, myostatin would have been everywhere if he was the carrier. Most Canadian carriers trace to the cow in the link above Winalot Command's Lady and it can't be proven but she is supposed to be a half Maine, that was not her pedigree because the cow was switched at some point. At the time Maines blood typed like Shorthorns so it would have been very difficult to prove. I don't think there is anyway to confirm it now but it all traces back to her through her two sons. The American versions are also probably pedigrees that are wrong as well.

jaimiediamond · Jul 22, 2019

I have requested the myostatin test for Mandalong Super Flag... if he’s a carrier I will have crow for dinner

mark tenenbaum · Jul 23, 2019

The post to Medium Rare was somewhat tongue in cheek-You and Okotocks more or less have set forth the possible use of maines back in the 70s and maybe later who were also big etc-I was given to understand by a pretty knowledgeable person that Etula (Quebec AI Service ?) may have been one that was used quite a bit under the guise of something like Flag breeding or others and he could have been a carrier. I stated years ago that I thought Real Silver was a maine-I was told that by some of the same people mentioned earlier one of which was Harold Hoskins. He was a dead ringer and looked alot like the spotted Eagle shown above-AND A BIG BULL-way too thick to resemble the cattle he purportedly went back to. Awhile back there was a side profile of a FREAKY red bull on here by Muridale that resembled the Mohican bull from way back-as does Hatfield Govenor O0

Boreal · Jul 23, 2019

Gotta love the witch hunts that go on here whose premise is often in stark contrast to what we know about genetics: E226X didn’t have to come from Maines. Close bred herds are more likely to give arise to mutations - hence, more purebred animals are more likely to develop them. Could it have come from an outcross? Sure. Was it more likely to have been in Shorthorns all along? Absolutely. It probably arose in Durham cattle.

This reminds me of the speculation about Th and how it came from Galloway - which has now been proven to be another SP fantasy as they’re different mutations. Haven’t seen many retractions of the wild allegations on here, however - likely because the evidence doesn’t fit the narrative that Shorthorns were somehow unadultered until all of this outside breeding was snuck in. Hogwash.

oakview · Jul 23, 2019

For those of you who didn't get it, I was not serious about Ayatollah's relationship to the myostatin problem. He may have contributed many things, extra muscling was not one of them.

turning grass into beef · Jul 23, 2019

Interesting thread. There has been a lot of discussion about where it came from. That's fine. But I keep thinking about the future. Where do we go from here? I get the impression that some people are deathly afraid of the myostatin gene (maybe I am wrong but that is what I think). Here are my thoughts.
Who cares where it came from. How are you going manage your herd in the future? I am not afraid of it at all. In fact, we have decided to use some carriers in our commercial herd as are some other commercial breeders.
We calve out around 350 shorthorn sired calves each year (purebred and commercial). We have never had a single calving issue due to myostatin. We get 1-2 calves per year that are double muscled and we have A LOT of cows in our herd have Saskvalley Ramrod 155R at least once in their pedigree.
Here is my math (notice that I think in terms of a commercial cattle rancher). IF you get 1% of your calves that exhibit double muscling and that calf sells for $500.00 less than the rest of the other calves, then the other 99% need to make up that $500.00. That is about $5.00 per calf, or 1 cent per pound on 500 pound calves. If the other 99% of the calves exhibit more muscling by using a bull with more muscling, then I believe that 1 cent per pound premium is achievable.
On a side note, I don't believe that you can tell a carrier by just looking at them. We tested all of our sale bulls last year and the most heavily muscled bulls were not all carriers.

aj · Jul 23, 2019

Close bred herds don't cause mutations. Line breeding will expose a genetic mutation. Surely you understand that?

oakview · Jul 23, 2019

Isn't it true that sometimes freaks of nature just happen? 40 years ago we had two calves born in the same year with no tail. Nothing there. If felt like the tail bone was bent back along the spine under the skin. The calves did fine, just looked odd. They were absolutely, totally unrelated unless you wanted to go back to the beginning of time.

Okotoks · Jul 23, 2019

I think the article in the link below is very good. It mentions that myostatin was first observed 200 years ago "The Beef Shorthorn Cattle Society directors are also aware that there are examples of cattle within the Beef Shorthorn breed that appear to be exhibiting characteristics associated with a myostatin mutation. This is not a surprise given that the first documented case of double muscling was 200 years ago in Durham cattle."
I think myostatin is more prevalent across breeds in the UK as it produces a phenotype that is popular there.
I think it's more important to understand and manage it than where it actually originated. Testing ones herd bulls and knowing what animals they can be mated with is a good starting point. If you are using a good bull that is a carrier you would probably want to follow on his daughters with a free bull. Breeding programs are all about personal preference so there are a dozen views on every aspect!

https://www.beefshorthorn.org/beef-shorthorn-news/2018/11/13/double-muscling-myostatin-and-the-beef-shorthorn

Cabanha Santa Isabel - BR · Jul 23, 2019

Mutation, the historical cattle industry official excuse for adulteration.

Cabanha Santa Isabel - BR · Jul 23, 2019

Last year, I inspected for register purposes some calves. Three one were discarded for double muscle.
Never got it until this date in Brazil.
As technical inspector for register in brazilian herd book, I cut off summarelly the double muscled, and incentive the breeders to NEVER AGAIN use similar genetics.
A dead calf or a genetic defected calf is money lost!

Myostatin gene

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