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Offline wiseguy

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Re: Myostatin gene
« Reply #45 on: July 22, 2019, 05:28:02 PM »
Mohican sure reminds me of Strathore Irish Magic-There is one common thread between these two and the bulls X Bar listed-The superflag blood-Hey Medium Rare do you think I might be on the right track-he did make them bigger and "variations there of" were used alot in that respect. O0

I have also had discussions about Rb eagle 148th and 255th. I have been told these bulls expressed a different Myostatin variant. I have never used any of these genetics, but the believed culprit was said to be Chuck O Luck Real Silver. Again none of this is confirmed.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2019, 05:29:07 PM by wiseguy »

Online Medium Rare

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Re: Myostatin gene
« Reply #46 on: July 22, 2019, 05:30:04 PM »
There are carriers that do not have Gafa Mochican in their published pedigree. I don't know if semen even exists on him to have it tested. The Lady cow happens to be in at least one of carriers that do not go back to Mochican.

You'd have to ask Okotoks about Super Flag. I have a really nice and heavy muscled bred heifer sired by Super Flag that I need to test, but it's because there's a known carrier on the bottom side of her pedigree. The Lady cow happens to appear in the pedigree behind this particular known carrier as well.

I assume there are multiple sources as several full blood maine bulls were used honestly as well as dishonestly. If the Maine breeders or their Association would reveal their knowledge it would be easier to sort out the pedigrees where they were used honestly. It'd still be a puzzle though as we're talking about bulls that were used in the late 60s and early 70s and they weren't always put on the registration papers.

Either way, if you guys would start testing parentage on some of these old rumored bulls with whatever is left over in the tip of a staw after using one we could all watch the ASA play musical chairs with our epds as single step goes nuts trying to sort it out.

Offline -XBAR-

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Re: Myostatin gene
« Reply #47 on: July 22, 2019, 05:38:09 PM »
Mohican sure reminds me of Strathore Irish Magic-There is one common thread between these two and the bulls X Bar listed-The superflag blood-Hey Medium Rare do you think I might be on the right track-he did make them bigger and "variations there of" were used alot in that respect. O0

 (clapping)
-SASKVALLEY EDITOR-    -XBAR EMPIRE-    -LEVELDALE GENESIS-

Offline knabe

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Re: Myostatin gene
« Reply #48 on: July 22, 2019, 08:01:44 PM »
According to a number of people who would know-G-9 was thought to be a Cunia son or grandson.Which would be great with me.

Until you found out cunia is a monkey mouth and spastic pareisis carrier.

Offline Okotoks

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Re: Myostatin gene
« Reply #49 on: July 22, 2019, 08:04:28 PM »
Mohican sure reminds me of Strathore Irish Magic-There is one common thread between these two and the bulls X Bar listed-The superflag blood-Hey Medium Rare do you think I might be on the right track-he did make them bigger and "variations there of" were used alot in that respect. O0

 (clapping)
It's not Mandalong Super Flag he had 1352 offspring in the ASA and 673 in Canada, there are numerous cattle in the Canadian herd book that trace to him between 30 and 60 times, myostatin would have been everywhere if he was the carrier. Most Canadian carriers trace to the cow in the link above Winalot Command's Lady and it can't be proven but she is supposed to be a half Maine, that was not her pedigree because the cow was switched at some point. At the time Maines blood typed like Shorthorns so it would have been very difficult to prove. I don't think there is anyway to confirm it now but it all traces back to her through her two sons. The American versions are also probably pedigrees that are wrong as well. >:(

Offline jaimiediamond

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Re: Myostatin gene
« Reply #50 on: July 22, 2019, 08:21:03 PM »
I have requested the myostatin test for Mandalong Super Flag... if hes a carrier I will have crow for dinner

Offline mark tenenbaum

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Re: Myostatin gene
« Reply #51 on: July 22, 2019, 11:23:55 PM »
The post to Medium Rare was somewhat tongue in cheek-You and Okotocks more or less have set forth  the  possible use of maines back in the 70s and maybe later  who were also big etc-I was given to understand by a pretty knowledgeable person that Etula (Quebec AI Service ?) may have been one that was used quite a bit under the guise of something like Flag breeding or others and he could have been a carrier. I  stated  years ago that I thought Real Silver was a maine-I was told that by some of the same people mentioned earlier one of which was Harold Hoskins. He was a dead ringer and looked alot like the spotted Eagle shown above-AND A BIG  BULL-way too thick to resemble the cattle he purportedly went back to. Awhile back there was a side profile of a FREAKY red bull on here by Muridale that  resembled the Mohican bull from way back-as does Hatfield Govenor   O0
« Last Edit: July 23, 2019, 12:01:25 AM by mark tenenbaum »

Online Boreal

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Re: Myostatin gene
« Reply #52 on: July 23, 2019, 08:10:05 AM »
Gotta love the witch hunts that go on here whose premise is often in stark contrast to what we know about genetics: E226X didnt have to come from Maines. Close bred herds are more likely to give arise to mutations - hence, more purebred animals are more likely to develop them. Could it have come from an outcross? Sure. Was it more likely to have been in Shorthorns all along? Absolutely. It probably arose in Durham cattle.

This reminds me of the speculation about Th and how it came from Galloway - which has now been proven to be another SP fantasy as theyre different mutations. Havent seen many retractions of the wild allegations on here, however - likely because the evidence doesnt fit the narrative that Shorthorns were somehow unadultered until all of this outside breeding was snuck in. Hogwash.

Offline oakview

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Re: Myostatin gene
« Reply #53 on: July 23, 2019, 08:40:13 AM »
For those of you who didn't get it, I was not serious about Ayatollah's relationship to the myostatin problem.  He may have contributed many things, extra muscling was not one of them.

Offline turning grass into beef

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Re: Myostatin gene
« Reply #54 on: July 23, 2019, 10:00:24 AM »
Interesting thread.  There has been a lot of discussion about where it came from.  That's fine.  But I keep thinking about the future.  Where do we go from here?  I get the impression that some people are deathly afraid of the myostatin gene (maybe I am wrong but that is what I think).  Here are my thoughts.
Who cares where it came from.  How are you going manage your herd in the future?  I am not afraid of it at all.  In fact, we have decided to use some carriers in our commercial herd as are some other commercial breeders.
We calve out around 350 shorthorn sired calves each year (purebred and commercial).  We have never had a single calving issue due to myostatin.  We get 1-2 calves per year that are double muscled and we have A LOT of cows in our herd have Saskvalley Ramrod 155R at least once in their pedigree.
Here is my math (notice that I think in terms of a commercial cattle rancher).  IF you get 1% of your calves that exhibit double muscling and that calf sells for $500.00 less than the rest of the other calves, then the other 99% need to make up that $500.00.  That is about $5.00 per calf, or 1 cent per pound on 500 pound calves.  If the other 99% of the calves exhibit more muscling by using a bull with more muscling, then I believe that 1 cent per pound premium is achievable.
On a side note, I don't believe that you can tell a carrier by just looking at them.  We tested all of our sale bulls last year and the most heavily muscled bulls were not all carriers.
"I have never been able to afford poor quality bulls" - Northern Rancher
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Offline aj

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Re: Myostatin gene
« Reply #55 on: July 23, 2019, 01:29:34 PM »
Close bred herds don't cause mutations. Line breeding will expose a genetic mutation. Surely you understand that?
People can't believe we have such a big moon for such a small town.

Offline oakview

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Re: Myostatin gene
« Reply #56 on: July 23, 2019, 03:08:45 PM »
Isn't it true that sometimes freaks of nature just happen?  40 years ago we had two calves born in the same year with no tail.  Nothing there.  If felt like the tail bone was bent back along the spine under the skin.  The calves did fine, just looked odd.  They were absolutely, totally unrelated unless you wanted to go back to the beginning of time. 

Offline Okotoks

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Re: Myostatin gene
« Reply #57 on: July 23, 2019, 04:42:04 PM »
I think the article in the link below is very good. It mentions that myostatin was first observed 200 years ago "The Beef Shorthorn Cattle Society directors are also aware that there are examples of cattle within the Beef Shorthorn breed that appear to be exhibiting characteristics associated with a myostatin mutation. This is not a surprise given that the first documented case of double muscling was 200 years ago in Durham cattle."
I think myostatin is more prevalent across breeds in the UK as it produces a phenotype that is popular there.
I think it's more important to understand and manage it than where it actually originated. Testing ones herd bulls and knowing what animals they can be mated with is a good starting point. If you are using a good bull that is a carrier you would probably want to follow on his daughters with a free bull. Breeding programs are all about personal preference so there are a dozen views on every aspect!

 https://www.beefshorthorn.org/beef-shorthorn-news/2018/11/13/double-muscling-myostatin-and-the-beef-shorthorn


Offline Cabanha Santa Isabel - BR

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Re: Myostatin gene
« Reply #58 on: July 23, 2019, 05:31:25 PM »
Mutation, the historical cattle industry official excuse for adulteration.

Offline Cabanha Santa Isabel - BR

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Re: Myostatin gene
« Reply #59 on: July 23, 2019, 05:34:50 PM »
Last year, I inspected for register purposes some calves. Three one were discarded for double muscle.
Never got it until this date in Brazil.
As technical inspector for register in brazilian herd book, I cut off summarelly the double muscled, and incentive the breeders to NEVER AGAIN use similar genetics.
A dead calf or a genetic defected calf is money lost!

 

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