Steer Planet - Show Steers and Club Calves Forum

He takes a great picture but the numbers are not exceptional.

what was his own numbers.

numbers are below good. they are probably unacceptable?

his own numbers, 528 and 945

was he sick? something else? bad winter for both him and a calf crop?

So,  according to the Canadian DigitalBeef data,  Robert has 56 calves with recorded birth weights at 88 pounds average,  40 calves with weaning weights at 559 pounds average and 27 calves with yearling weights at 864 pounds.   The bull himself weighted 85 pounds at birth,  weaned at 520 and had a yearling weight at 950.    He takes a great picture but the numbers are not exceptional.

Well, looking at these figures, at least his BW figures are true. <5% deviation. That is the only figure that management can't really influence, unless you are dancing with the devil!
The other figures are very easily manipulated with management factors. Taking into consideration the breeder's low maintenance operation, higher weaning weights may be expected, 8% higher than the sire. Achieved! Due to performance testing the yearling figures would, expectedly, deviate from the curve.
Does one really want "exceptional" figures in a successful and established breeding programme?
Unless you have to correct a problem in your herd, "exceptional" figures shouldn't really be necessary. I think that the objective at this stage would be to create "exceptional" phenotype, and what better can one ask for than this sire!

To each,  his own!   It seems pointless to operate a registered cattle operation and continuously use average bulls.   Maybe my terminology is at fault,  but personally I wouldn't use a bull who was not better than what I already have.

I'm wondering what you would want to change about this bull in order to use him in your herd? It seems you aren't happy with his individual performance at weaning and yearling. Is this correct?
You got me curious enough to look up the bulls epds. It looks like he is well above breed average for the calving ease and birth weight traits. He's also well above breed average for stay ability and marbling. And well below breed average for ribeye. The traits he is breed average in appear to be the growth traits. Is this what you are referring to when you call him an average bull? And if so, is that because you think we need to increase the performance in our Shorthorn cattle?
It seems to me, if our cattle are big enough(and I think they are), that breed average in these traits is right about where we want to be.
I think the bull is pretty hard to fault phenotypically. I think a herd of 500 of his daughters would be pretty profitable. I  own 1 daughter who just weaned her first calf. I'll know a lot more about her in 5 years, but so far I'm liking what I'm seeing.

I think this can all be attributed to the massive divide between show genetics and commercial genetics. They are, practically, two different breeds!

Shorthorn average is more performance than my environment can support.   Exposes the worst part about epds. People see the percentile ranking as �better� or �worse� instead of appropriately using them to identify and match a level of performance within the cattle to their environment.

LETS ALL TAKE BRITISH BREED MATERNAL CATTLE OUT OF THIER TRUE ENVIRONMENT AND TRY TO COMPARE THIER INDECES TO BOS INDICOS OR WHATEVER IN  SOUTH TEXAS OR SOME MILKING SHOTHORN forgotten prairie FANTASY WORLD- NEED TO HAVE  RANGE CATTLE TO THRIVE IN THAT ENVIRONMENT. AT the very LEAST in some of the SHORTHORN BREEDING I HAVE SEEN.  Even in less hostile environments IVE LOST COUNT OF HOW MANY SMALL HERDS  IVE SEEN THAT ARE RUN BY EARTH SHOE YUPPIES or overgrazing wanna be's  WHO HAVE PITIFUL STARVING ANIMALS Want  good looking shorthorn (appearing) angus ( appearing) or hereford types to survive in a very harsh environment? Breed them to brahmas beefmasters brafords etc THE  CATTLE IVE SEEN  OTHER THAN CROSSING OUT that way  ARE THE CLUBBY CHARx AMERICAN-HEREFORD APPEARING- SHORTHORN WHO KNOWS WHAT THAT ARE ALL OVER THE TEXAS OKLAHOMA SALES THE CALVES LOOK GOOD CONTRARY TO SOME PERCEPTIONS Probably because these cattle come from range cattle not far back in thier lineage

In my 60 years of cattle experience, the one recurring theme has been performance.  The AI stud books from the late 60's pushed performance, breed associations pushed performance, cattle shows and sales have pushed performance.  The oldest ABS bull catalog I have, over 50 years old, graphically demonstrates how much your calves sired by their bulls will out perform calves out of other bulls.  I have read the "banker and the bull" story so many times I'm sick of it.  The exotic breeds were brought over here under the banner of how much they will improve the performance of your calves.  I have lived through the ASA's SPR and WHR programs.  I personally participated in the old ASA sire test.  Every time I sell bulls at the beef expo they are weighed with WDA supplied to prospective  buyers.  Every time I go to a show, as a participant or an observer, the bulls are weighed with the information supplied to the judge.  I have listened many times to judges as they say, "the second place heifer is as good or better than the first place heifer, there's just not as much of her."  Our county fair was among the first to weigh in calves and provide ADG figures to the judge.  You cannot ignore performance.  As I have stated before, every cattle producer has to determine the proper amount of performance that his or her environment can sustain.  For some it might be total grassfed beef with little or no input, for others it might be trying to obtain those 1,000 pound weaning weights, and every thing in between.  I have recommended for years that genetics should be purchased from someone who produces cattle the way you do.  That increases your odds of getting what you expect.  I have used a few Canadian bulls lately, assuming that since they survived 500 miles north of me, they should survive here.  Since the past few weeks have been among the most brutal we've ever had, it's a good thing they're used to it.