New Herdsire

Duncraggan · Jul 3, 2016

Notice the wedge shape on the two Muridale bulls as well as 130K.

librarian · Jul 3, 2016

Medium Rare said:
librarian said:

The math is complicated but if you add all the generations up, he must be a half brother or better to Robert.
MR. How is your Bonanza bull doing? ( if I'm not mixed up)

Click to expand...

He's been busy this spring. Covered some Shorthorns, some Angus, and some Red Angus the past few months. Probably let him run clean up on some fall calving Red Angus this winter. I've been meaning to take a picture now that the summer fescue has stripped him down to his working clothes.

M R, would you please post a photo- I'm always curious how Bonanza sons look- we already have a pretty good idea how the daughters turn out!

Medium Rare · Jul 3, 2016

librarian said:
Medium Rare said:

librarian said:

MR. How is your Bonanza bull doing? ( if I'm not mixed up)

Click to expand...

He's been busy this spring. Covered some Shorthorns, some Angus, and some Red Angus the past few months. Probably let him run clean up on some fall calving Red Angus this winter. I've been meaning to take a picture now that the summer fescue has stripped him down to his working clothes.

Click to expand...

M R, would you please post a photo- I'm always curious how Bonanza sons look- we already have a pretty good idea how the daughters turn out!

I guess Coyote won't mind seeing a young bonanza son in his thread.

kiblercattle · Jul 3, 2016

Anyone have a idea of what their ultimate 130k daughters weigh? The red spry cow looks like she could weigh 1600+++ very easy.

coyote · Jul 4, 2016

Our Alta cedar Ultimate 130k cows would ave around 1500.

justintime · Jul 4, 2016

kiblercattle said:
Anyone have a idea of what their ultimate 130k daughters weigh? The red spry cow looks like she could weigh 1600+++ very easy.

I don't know what the Spry cow would have weighed, but her dam was what I would call a moderate framed cow that on a good day would weigh around 1500 lbs. Sometimes pictures do not depict size very well... in both directions. I have seen some animals that appeared massive in their pictures that were smaller framed in reality, as well as the opposite.

mark tenenbaum · Jul 4, 2016

Medium Rare said:
librarian said:

Medium Rare said:

librarian said:

MR. How is your Bonanza bull doing? ( if I'm not mixed up)

Click to expand...

He's been busy this spring. Covered some Shorthorns, some Angus, and some Red Angus the past few months. Probably let him run clean up on some fall calving Red Angus this winter. I've been meaning to take a picture now that the summer fescue has stripped him down to his working clothes.

Click to expand...

M R, would you please post a photo- I'm always curious how Bonanza sons look- we already have a pretty good idea how the daughters turn out!

Click to expand...

I guess Coyote won't mind seeing a young bonanza son in his thread./// Heres one I like-and hes got some numbers-and performance to go along with them

Doc · Jul 7, 2016

Doc said:
The current vacancy in the staff might have something to do with delays in anything related to genetics. I just hope it didn't leave too big of a general Shorthorn/breeder knowledge vacuum as well. I expect some more growing pains along the way. I did see where they are looking for more breeders to join the various committees though, so hopefully that results in some positive additions to the system.

I'm just glad the digital beef system is working fairly smoothly. Some Red Angus breeders are STILL working through theirs after they spent an enormous amount of money, and I can't seem get an email returned no matter who I send it to over there.

If I'm not mistaken, the current vacancy shouldn't have an effect on what Josh is talking about as Jake just left. I would say that with Jake leaving , it will leave a MAJOR Shorthorn/breeder knowledge vacuum. Other than Gwen, there is no one left with any Shorthorn knowledge or breeder knowledge. I think that will be a major frustration point to most breeders.
[/quote]

Boy, now I hate to hear that Gwen is leaving as of Aug.1st. I hate that we have now lost all the people that knew the cattle and the breeders.

Dale · Feb 2, 2021

Muridale Robert needs to be used more! Look up his 57 offspring on Canada's digital beef. Robert is free of myostatin. He's a real beef bull, and sires high volume cattle.

https://csa.digitalbeef.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=_animal&file=_animal&animal_registration=M473721

Dale · Feb 4, 2021

Robert's sire, Bonanza, is one of the great ones. Robert, like Bonanza, has masculinity, which is not as common as it should be. Dad used to say that when a bull looks around the corner of the barn (with only his head visible) that there should be no doubt about his being a bull. Masculine bulls sire feminine females--have a look at the Robert daughters on the Cattlevisions website.

idalee · Feb 4, 2021

So, according to the Canadian DigitalBeef data, Robert has 56 calves with recorded birth weights at 88 pounds average, 40 calves with weaning weights at 559 pounds average and 27 calves with yearling weights at 864 pounds. The bull himself weighted 85 pounds at birth, weaned at 520 and had a yearling weight at 950. He takes a great picture but the numbers are not exceptional.

knabe · Feb 4, 2021

idalee said:
He takes a great picture but the numbers are not exceptional.

what was his own numbers.

numbers are below good. they are probably unacceptable?

his own numbers, 528 and 945

was he sick? something else? bad winter for both him and a calf crop?

mark tenenbaum · Feb 4, 2021

Calves up there that grow up in the extremes out on the range and are then developed on what amounts to a roughage ration So they are not going to exhibit the early gains of Midwest cattle who are fed well Which I think all cattle should be They are more or less later maturing due to the environment and resources but mature into at least the size and weights of the cattle down here O0

Duncraggan · Feb 6, 2021

idalee said:
So, according to the Canadian DigitalBeef data, Robert has 56 calves with recorded birth weights at 88 pounds average, 40 calves with weaning weights at 559 pounds average and 27 calves with yearling weights at 864 pounds. The bull himself weighted 85 pounds at birth, weaned at 520 and had a yearling weight at 950. He takes a great picture but the numbers are not exceptional.

Well, looking at these figures, at least his BW figures are true. <5% deviation. That is the only figure that management can't really influence, unless you are dancing with the devil!
The other figures are very easily manipulated with management factors. Taking into consideration the breeder's low maintenance operation, higher weaning weights may be expected, 8% higher than the sire. Achieved! Due to performance testing the yearling figures would, expectedly, deviate from the curve.
Does one really want "exceptional" figures in a successful and established breeding programme?
Unless you have to correct a problem in your herd, "exceptional" figures shouldn't really be necessary. I think that the objective at this stage would be to create "exceptional" phenotype, and what better can one ask for than this sire!

idalee · Feb 6, 2021

To each, his own! It seems pointless to operate a registered cattle operation and continuously use average bulls. Maybe my terminology is at fault, but personally I wouldn't use a bull who was not better than what I already have.

carl · Feb 7, 2021

idalee said:
To each, his own! It seems pointless to operate a registered cattle operation and continuously use average bulls. Maybe my terminology is at fault, but personally I wouldn't use a bull who was not better than what I already have.

I'm wondering what you would want to change about this bull in order to use him in your herd? It seems you aren't happy with his individual performance at weaning and yearling. Is this correct?
You got me curious enough to look up the bulls epds. It looks like he is well above breed average for the calving ease and birth weight traits. He's also well above breed average for stay ability and marbling. And well below breed average for ribeye. The traits he is breed average in appear to be the growth traits. Is this what you are referring to when you call him an average bull? And if so, is that because you think we need to increase the performance in our Shorthorn cattle?
It seems to me, if our cattle are big enough(and I think they are), that breed average in these traits is right about where we want to be.
I think the bull is pretty hard to fault phenotypically. I think a herd of 500 of his daughters would be pretty profitable. I own 1 daughter who just weaned her first calf. I'll know a lot more about her in 5 years, but so far I'm liking what I'm seeing.

Medium Rare · Feb 7, 2021

It looks like I'm one of the few with a daughter in the states. While I did not sample him for growth reasons, her performance was definitely not an issue. If she grows up to look like the pictures of his mature daughters while still being in production at that age I'll wish I had 99 straws left instead of just 9.

Having said that, I do believe there are a lot of shorthorn breeders who do not know how bad their calves would get blown away in the feedlot. Growing too slow and quitting way too early the last few years got a lot of breeders put on the do not buy list. Considering the average herd size, that's probably incorrect and I should say it got a certain color put on the do not buy list.

Duncraggan · Feb 7, 2021

I think this can all be attributed to the massive divide between show genetics and commercial genetics. They are, practically, two different breeds!

mark tenenbaum · Feb 7, 2021

I would certainely agree for the most part-But I would guess Idalees cattle are farther away from show cattle than Muridale Thermal Energy Jits Cattle, SaskValleys influence on and on JMO-I really havent seen very many native (dual-milker oriented side NOT Leader 21st etc) lately that would step in the ring with ALOT of those Canadian Cattle At the very least in terms of stoutness O0

RyanChandler · Feb 15, 2021

Shorthorn average is more performance than my environment can support. Exposes the worst part about epds. People see the percentile ranking as “better” or “worse” instead of appropriately using them to identify and match a level of performance within the cattle to their environment.

New Herdsire

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