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Offline LLBUX

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Older Shorthorin bulls
« on: September 04, 2017, 04:20:35 PM »
I found some Shorthorn semen in my Dad's old tanks.

Any value or use for these bulls?

I'm not a Shorthorn guy, and I respect the vast history and knowledge by many members.

Glenford Curt
Seven Ts Luck O The Irish
3W Payoff
GF Combo
Esquire  Player ET

Thanks!

Offline mark tenenbaum

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Re: Older Shorthorin bulls
« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2017, 05:21:34 PM »
Combos are nuts and bigBWS FORGET IT Glenford Curt was a big Ayatollah FORGET IT,Luck of The Irish would work on something THICK-like almost all Taylor Cattle. He would be the best one listed JMO 3w Payoff is relatively EZ calving, big, but NOT thick makes them gangly-BUT-hes also a very strong documented carcass bull-proven by the Marc Study,Esquire Player is anything but CE-didnt see much out of him I Wouldnt Try Him. O0
« Last Edit: September 04, 2017, 05:24:43 PM by mark tenenbaum »

Offline oakview

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Re: Older Shorthorin bulls
« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2017, 08:55:12 AM »
I have had great luck with 3W Payoff on heifers.  I'm glad I have semen in my tank and still use it occasionally on something I might be worried about.  He won't sire today's show cattle, but mine have always come easily.  One of the best show heifers we ever had was a 3W Payoff daughter out of a Dollar II (fullblood Maine) cow.  We have many descendants in the herd today.  Our Roseleaf females all go back to her.  Previous post pretty much hit the nail on the head describing the bulls.

Offline mark tenenbaum

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Re: Older Shorthorin bulls
« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2017, 07:47:14 PM »
I have had great luck with 3W Payoff on heifers.  I'm glad I have semen in my tank and still use it occasionally on something I might be worried about.  He won't sire today's show cattle, but mine have always come easily.  One of the best show heifers we ever had was a 3W Payoff daughter out of a Dollar II (fullblood Maine) cow.  We have many descendants in the herd today.  Our Roseleaf females all go back to her.  Previous post pretty much hit the nail on the head describing the bulls.///Payoff would work on the few clubby Shorthorns that still exist-like any of the Oklahoma Texas survivors,Professors, Rock Roll Trains, Assasin, Exile,all the other FSF bulls, Bs Mindgames anything Double Vision, Gas Monkeys MABx Shorthornxs etc.The Payoff Roseleaf female ended up at Deertrails sale-Rick Carlson had her there-I also remember when she was advertised in the 90s-she was big and impressive-thick from Dollar 11 -I owned Deertrail Countess who was a different deal and doner being a Hilltop Lancer (Salers influence) out of a Dollar 11 cow who was also related to the cow that had SMF Fifth Ave O0 O0

Offline Cabanha Santa Isabel - BR

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Re: Older Shorthorin bulls
« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2017, 03:03:03 PM »
Hilltop Lancer (Salers influence) ...........REALLY?

Offline mark tenenbaum

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Re: Older Shorthorin bulls
« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2017, 07:42:19 PM »
YES MY PARTNER ED GRATHWOHL TOLD ME ALL ABOUT IT AND HE USED HILLTOP BREEDING for quite a while. Deertrail Awesome was an Enticer out of a Mark4 X Hilltop cow . She remains one of the top 3-4 impressive cows I've seen. But having seen him in person a number of times-he really didnt look that much like a Shorthorn-The Salers influence perse was the way he was made under his chin,and sometimes in the shade of red or roan in color and I saw alot of that in the Hilltops I saw out in the field O0

Offline idalee

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Re: Older Shorthorin bulls
« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2017, 10:20:08 PM »
Which Hilltop Lancer with the Salers influence?  When I go to the Shorthorn Website,  there are 76 Hilltop Lancers listed.   And I can't find Deer Trail Countess at all.

Offline justintime

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Re: Older Shorthorin bulls
« Reply #7 on: September 07, 2017, 08:29:14 AM »
YES MY PARTNER ED GRATHWOHL TOLD ME ALL ABOUT IT AND HE USED HILLTOP BREEDING for quite a while. Deertrail Awesome was an Enticer out of a Mark4 X Hilltop cow . She remains one of the top 3-4 impressive cows I've seen. But having seen him in person a number of times-he really didnt look that much like a Shorthorn-The Salers influence perse was the way he was made under his chin,and sometimes in the shade of red or roan in color and I saw alot of that in the Hilltops I saw out in the field O0

I am quite surprised to hear that the Hilltop herd had some Salers in them. I visited that herd several times and I can't recall ever seeing any evidence of this. Most of the genetics Carvin Guy was breeding back then originated from cattle he purchased from the Rorvig herd in North Dakota and I saw that herd many times as well. The Rorvig herd was a dual purpose Shorthorn herd, and I thought the Hilltop cattle looked very much like the Rorvig herd did. The Hilltop herd was a large herd, and there was some very impressive cows in that herd. One of the first reasons I question them being part Salers, was that this set of cows was very quiet. I have raised a few Salers over the years, and I must have only got the crazy ones as I shipped almost all of them to market because of they were nuts. It seemed that the half bloods were more nuts than either of their parents and even calves out of very quiet cows had mental issues. I never saw any of that in the Hilltop herd. The Hilltop cattle were definitely different from other Shorthorns of that era, but I think it was because of the Rorvig bloodlines. I had an opportunity to purchase the remainder of the Rorvig herd after some of the best had been purchased by Carvin Guy as well as Floyd Fredrickson. Many of best cows were older, and with the hassle of getting them export tested and then getting them back here, I decided not to do it. The price they wanted was certainly good enough as they wanted $450 US if I took the entire herd of 55 cows. The Rorvig brothers were getting pretty old by this time, and I heard that they shipped the cows to market that fall.
I saw the old Lancer herd sire and many of his sons and daughters on more than a few occasions and I certainly never thought they had any Salers in them. I am not saying they were 100% pure but I would be very surprised if they were messing around with Salers genetics.
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Offline mark tenenbaum

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Re: Older Shorthorin bulls
« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2017, 09:01:53 AM »
Basically-Dugdale, Ed, Lawrence, Hoskins, a well known Texas breeder,a breeder who once had a big herd in NC who has since passed, several people I knew in Maryland, and various others who had been around all told me the same thing most of them bought  cattle over many years from Guy-I dont have a way right now the scan a picture of Countess-or Countess Hearthrob or the 6 or so  other females I kept out of this family (there were also 3 or 4 heifers I sold). Here are some reg numbers- Deertrail Countess-3795139, here are some more-3831531,3919129,4115756,4115755,4061738 I may have missed one called Contesta-she died 2 years ago-There is one left-a daughter of hers sired by Proud Jazz O0
« Last Edit: September 07, 2017, 09:04:05 AM by mark tenenbaum »

Offline mark tenenbaum

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Re: Older Shorthorin bulls
« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2017, 09:06:00 AM »
Which Hilltop Lancer with the Salers influence?  When I go to the Shorthorn Website,  there are 76 Hilltop Lancers listed.   And I can't find Deer Trail Countess at all./// I posted her reg number -there are 16 progeny registered to her and some that didnt turn out are not -She was from the 80s-maybe a little before your time .As far as the "influence" it was like the "maine influence or even " simmental or "charolais influence in some of the cattle back then-it wasn't always included in the registration process LOL.O0
« Last Edit: September 07, 2017, 09:17:33 AM by mark tenenbaum »

 

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