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Offline justintime

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One of our junior herd sires
« on: July 10, 2013, 11:11:34 PM »
This is HC Free Spirit 6Y ET x*, who is a son of HC Timeline 17T ET x* and New Beginnings Elsie's Jade ( both are  also pictured.)  Free Spirit has spent the past 5 months in stud and we now have semen ready for shipment to Britain and other EU countries, as well as Canada, USA, Australia, Argentina, Uruguay and Brazil, and South Africa.
He is out breeding cows now. So far I am impressed with how he is keeping his condition. He had a 90 lb BW - unassisted. He weighed 970 at 9.5 months of age and 1262 at a year. He had an adjusted 12 month rib eye area of 16.1 sq. inches .  He was Reserve Grand bull at Canadian Western Agribition last fall and he weighed 1903 lb there at 21 months.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2013, 12:08:58 AM by justintime »
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Offline Doc

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Re: One of our junior herd sires
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2013, 05:51:27 AM »
He looks good Grant. We have 3 - 1st calf heifers that are sired by Bloodstone, Phoenix and CCS Stampede that are all out of a Sprys True Blue x Elsie Jade cow. They are all 3 real solid females and did a great job with their 1st calf. Your Elsie Jade cow is a good one.
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Offline Okotoks

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Re: One of our junior herd sires
« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2013, 07:40:12 AM »
He is looking good! Love his length, especially length of hip. (thumbsup)

Offline oakview

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Re: One of our junior herd sires
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2013, 09:35:43 AM »
That's another bull that would look good in my pasture.  I really liked the white Timeline bull you sold in last year's sale, too.  He's doing a good job for you (even though he's got Trump in him!).  Hard to get a bull that long that looks like he's got enough depth.  Good bull!

Offline Duncraggan

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Re: One of our junior herd sires
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2013, 01:29:24 PM »
Like the length on this bull JIT.  Arguably better than his sire!

Offline justintime

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Re: One of our junior herd sires
« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2013, 02:47:31 PM »
That's another bull that would look good in my pasture.  I really liked the white Timeline bull you sold in last year's sale, too.  He's doing a good job for you (even though he's got Trump in him!).  Hard to get a bull that long that looks like he's got enough depth.  Good bull!

Thanks Lonny!  Free Spirit is an ET full brother to the white bull we sold in our sale last year. He sold to Bamberry Farms in Eastern Ontario. 
I would also say that sometimes a person has to put some personal beliefs aside when you find an animal that appears to have some superiority in some traits. That was definitely the case with his sire Timeline. I am not the biggest fan of Salute however, I will say that as my Salute daughters have come into production, I have had to change my tune on them as well. My Salute daughters are becoming some of our best brood cows. They have great udders, milk well, produce calves in the top end of the calf crop and get back in calf. I have 6 Salute daughters and all of them are very good producing females, and I have to say that I have not found any significant differences from my females of other  bloodlines for their ability to stay in goo condition on only forages for feed.

I have always liked Timeline's mother, Shadybrook Presto 73G. She was flushed to Salute and when Timeline was born, I knew we had something a bit different when he first stood on his feet. When he went into our bull test that fall and we saw that he indexed almost 50% higher for gain to the rest of the pen, we were impressed. His weight per day of age was also near 40% about the pen average, and he also had the best REA in the pen along with a pretty decent IMF. Not only did he have good performance and muscling stats, he also had a great disposition and eye appeal. I waivered for several weeks on whether I would even put him through the sale, and keep him to use myself. I finally decided to offer him in the sale and retain at least a semen interest.
We have now had our 3rd set of calves from Timeline and 100 % of his calves have been born unassisted. I have not bred any heifers to him, however, last summer we did have a heifer calf get bred to him. She was only 6 months old when she was bred, and by the time I figured out she was in calf, she was too far along to abort. I worried about her all winter wondering if it would end up being a hard pull or c- section, but when I went out to do chores on morning in March, I found a beautiful heifer calf nursing this heifer and she was chewing her cud as if this had been an easy delivery. Obviously it was!
Timeline offspring have been well received by our customers and I have to say that he is one of the most influential sires I have used in many years. I thought the Major Leroy calves had the best temperaments possible but the Timeline calves are probably even better. Many of them lead immediately when a halter is placed on their head for the first time. The Moore family from Jerseyville, IL purchased a Timeline son this spring and after the bull arrived there, Hugh Moore phoned and said that I had never mentioned that I had halter broke the bull they purchased. I replied that I had never had a halter on that bull, to which he said" well, that is pretty amazing then, because my sons just haltered him, led him across the yard, put him in a chute and put a nose ring in him, then lead him back across the yard.. and he never pulled on the rope." Free Spirit was the same, as I never had to halter break him.

Free Spirit is more moderate framed and thicker topped than some other Timeline sons we have had, and he probably gets that from his mother's genetics.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2013, 09:34:27 PM by justintime »
Experience is what you get when you don't have it when you need it.

Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and bad breath!
Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity
If love is blind... why is lingerie so popular?
The only thing worse than an idiot ... is an educated idiot!

Offline Dale

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Re: One of our junior herd sires
« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2013, 03:51:34 PM »
Is his shape good for calving ease?  His shoulders look smooth and he is very long.  Your confidence in him must be strong, since you built a semen bank, etc.

We are retaining a junior herd sire by HC FL Touchdown, and are pleased with him at all stages of development so far!

Offline justintime

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Re: One of our junior herd sires
« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2013, 06:55:11 PM »
Is his shape good for calving ease?  His shoulders look smooth and he is very long.  Your confidence in him must be strong, since you built a semen bank, etc.

We are retaining a junior herd sire by HC FL Touchdown, and are pleased with him at all stages of development so far!

I won't be recommending him for use on heifers, at least until we get a bunch of calves from him, however, I would not hesitate to use him myself on 2nd calvers and mature cows. His recip mom was a smaller Red Angus X Simmental cross 2nd calver, and she calved him without even blinking. He did weigh 90 lbs at birth though. I think he has a very good angle to his shoulder, which IMO is the most important factor. I think we have to remember that you cannot have more muscle in any part of the body without having more muscle in all the body, and seeing that the shoulder is only held in place by two large muscles on each side of the shoulder itself,it stands to reason that heavier muscled cattle will have more shoulder. The important factor is the angle that the shoulder has, and that has a lot to do with leg structure and overall structural soundness. It is not rocket science that many of this posty legged clubby bulls are going to be harder calving. It has more to do with their structure and shoulder angle than it has to do with overall birth weight. Take a look at animals in nature  ( deer for example.) It has been said that a Brahman cow could be bred to an elephant and calve it without issues. That is mainly because they have structure that allows for easy calving and it all starts with proper leg structure which is totally connected to shoulder structure. I have also noticed that animals with legs that are too straight, also do not have the proper slope from hooks to pins. In a Brahman cow, the pins are lower than the hooks which is proper. The so called " big hip" you hear many cattle judges refer to, is only a good thing if there is still proper angle from hooks to pin bones. Mother Nature is seldom wrong, but humans are constantly trying to make her creatures more pleasing to their own eyes.
Experience is what you get when you don't have it when you need it.

Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and bad breath!
Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity
If love is blind... why is lingerie so popular?
The only thing worse than an idiot ... is an educated idiot!

Offline aj

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Re: One of our junior herd sires
« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2013, 07:22:09 PM »
There is data out there that suggest's that calves that have a front leg doubled back during partuition is a large calf.......over 90 pounds. Has there ever been a moderate or small calf born with a leg doubled back? How many times have you heard that " the calf wasn't that big but we had to pull it cause of MAL POSITIONING. Duh. If you are calving in a shed with video equipment guess it doesn't matter but if the cow is out there calving in the real world it matters.
People can't believe we have such a big moon for such a small town.

Offline jaimiediamond

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Re: One of our junior herd sires
« Reply #9 on: July 12, 2013, 09:28:24 PM »
Grant I liked this bull a lot at Agribition, I even thought during the Championship drive that he might be the winner. 

There is data out there that suggest's that calves that have a front leg doubled back during partuition is a large calf.......over 90 pounds. Has there ever been a moderate or small calf born with a leg doubled back? How many times have you heard that " the calf wasn't that big but we had to pull it cause of MAL POSITIONING. Duh. If you are calving in a shed with video equipment guess it doesn't matter but if the cow is out there calving in the real world it matters.
I have been helping calve cows out for a commercial operation, a red angus operation and our own program for the last 2 years (900 calves per year)I lost my own calf due to a malpresentation while I was taking a big exam, this calf weighed 82lbs and he was a total breach nothing but a tail.  When his position was fixed he popped out.  His dam up until this point calved unassisted, and due to his death she is gone. 

In the commercial program (750 head of possibly real world cattle) I had three calves with a leg back, after a quick fix the calves were born unassited (no chains, jack or anything just me hanging out watching) these calves were no more than 70lbs.  The Angus operation had two with a leg back and again once the leg was brought forward the cows had no trouble having the calf and the calf was small and quick to get up and nurse.  Each of these calves I marked down as assisted, malpresentation. 

Offline justintime

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Re: One of our junior herd sires
« Reply #10 on: July 12, 2013, 11:20:16 PM »
Grant I liked this bull a lot at Agribition, I even thought during the Championship drive that he might be the winner. 

There is data out there that suggest's that calves that have a front leg doubled back during partuition is a large calf.......over 90 pounds. Has there ever been a moderate or small calf born with a leg doubled back? How many times have you heard that " the calf wasn't that big but we had to pull it cause of MAL POSITIONING. Duh. If you are calving in a shed with video equipment guess it doesn't matter but if the cow is out there calving in the real world it matters.
I have been helping calve cows out for a commercial operation, a red angus operation and our own program for the last 2 years (900 calves per year)I lost my own calf due to a malpresentation while I was taking a big exam, this calf weighed 82lbs and he was a total breach nothing but a tail.  When his position was fixed he popped out.  His dam up until this point calved unassisted, and due to his death she is gone. 

In the commercial program (750 head of possibly real world cattle) I had three calves with a leg back, after a quick fix the calves were born unassited (no chains, jack or anything just me hanging out watching) these calves were no more than 70lbs.  The Angus operation had two with a leg back and again once the leg was brought forward the cows had no trouble having the calf and the calf was small and quick to get up and nurse.  Each of these calves I marked down as assisted, malpresentation.

I just went through my calving book and I had 2 calves with a leg back this year. The first was a 68 lb bull calf out of a heifer. He was the smallest BW single calf we had this year. The second foot back was a 85 lb bull calf out of one of our biggest cows. Again, once this was straightened out, the calf was born quickly and easily.  My numbers are really not significant to draw any conclusions. I also had a couple backwards calves, and I just pull them as the calf can die if birth is delayed once the naval cord is pinched off when it comes over the pelvis.  Fortunately both came easily.
Experience is what you get when you don't have it when you need it.

Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and bad breath!
Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity
If love is blind... why is lingerie so popular?
The only thing worse than an idiot ... is an educated idiot!

Offline -XBAR-

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Re: One of our junior herd sires
« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2013, 12:49:32 AM »
Good to see the Elsie Jades continuing the legacy.  Great looking bull, Grant. 

I pulled an upside down and breech calf this year. 77lbs. I, like you, waste no time turning them around and go ahead and do what it takes to get em out the quickest.

Offline aj

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Re: One of our junior herd sires
« Reply #12 on: July 13, 2013, 06:55:08 AM »
So you calve out 900 cows.....while going to college.......color me skepical. How many hours of sleep do you get Jamie?
People can't believe we have such a big moon for such a small town.

Offline justintime

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Re: One of our junior herd sires
« Reply #13 on: July 13, 2013, 08:01:58 AM »
So you calve out 900 cows.....while going to college.......color me skepical. How many hours of sleep do you get Jamie?

aj...I know that she does this and is very good at it as well!
Experience is what you get when you don't have it when you need it.

Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and bad breath!
Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity
If love is blind... why is lingerie so popular?
The only thing worse than an idiot ... is an educated idiot!

Offline jaimiediamond

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Re: One of our junior herd sires
« Reply #14 on: July 13, 2013, 08:11:18 AM »
When did I mention college? I mentioned a exam ;)   I graduated college in 2007  <rock> I could provide you with reference numbers, dates, or my complete resume whatever you like ;)  I feel like I am preparing for a interview :P Calving season is cold so I don't get much sleep to answer your question

So you calve out 900 cows.....while going to college.......color me skepical. How many hours of sleep do you get Jamie?
Grant I liked this bull a lot at Agribition, I even thought during the Championship drive that he might be the winner. 

There is data out there that suggest's that calves that have a front leg doubled back during partuition is a large calf.......over 90 pounds. Has there ever been a moderate or small calf born with a leg doubled back? How many times have you heard that " the calf wasn't that big but we had to pull it cause of MAL POSITIONING. Duh. If you are calving in a shed with video equipment guess it doesn't matter but if the cow is out there calving in the real world it matters.
I have been helping calve cows out for a commercial operation, a red angus operation and our own program for the last 2 years (900 calves per year)I lost my own calf due to a malpresentation while I was taking a big exam, this calf weighed 82lbs and he was a total breach nothing but a tail.  When his position was fixed he popped out.  His dam up until this point calved unassisted, and due to his death she is gone. 

In the commercial program (750 head of possibly real world cattle) I had three calves with a leg back, after a quick fix the calves were born unassited (no chains, jack or anything just me hanging out watching) these calves were no more than 70lbs.  The Angus operation had two with a leg back and again once the leg was brought forward the cows had no trouble having the calf and the calf was small and quick to get up and nurse.  Each of these calves I marked down as assisted, malpresentation. 
« Last Edit: July 13, 2013, 08:26:35 AM by jaimiediamond »

 

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