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Offline DakotaCow

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Re: Opinions on the 5-day CO-Synch + CIDR program
« Reply #30 on: March 26, 2014, 11:09:24 PM »
The key to any program is the attention to detail. Keep CIDRs as clean as possible going in, use 1.5 inch needle for GnRH. Switch needles when they get dull. Also keep your GnRH cold, I have seen places that have a cooler for beer and neglect the hundreds of dollars worth of drugs. Yes the multi dose syringes are handy but at what cost? We have gone to using single dose lure locks for our hormones. Hint, theres 11 doses in a 10 dose bottle usually as its adjusted for a certain margin of error and I can load 5 syringes and hit cows in the alley. As with many things slow is smooth, smooth is fast.

Offline Davidsonranch

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Re: Opinions on the 5-day CO-Synch + CIDR program
« Reply #31 on: March 27, 2014, 09:12:41 AM »
Thanks everyone for the heads up on the doses for Estrumate vs. Lute.  I might have screwed that up. 

Offline nativeman

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Re: Opinions on the 5-day CO-Synch + CIDR program
« Reply #32 on: April 13, 2014, 05:44:01 PM »
Just bred four cows on five day program.Two had patches off at the five day mark when pulled cidr,put new on cause didn't know what that was about. when bred at 70 hours all cows had get feel heat with one cow in heat heavily previous night,two not showing no heat and one coming in,bred all with GNRH shot.will do some more next weekend so ill update in 283 days.Still cant believe im breeding for calving in February again after this past winter.

Offline cpubarn

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Re: Opinions on the 5-day CO-Synch + CIDR program
« Reply #33 on: April 13, 2014, 06:39:46 PM »
My calculator says your breeding for January, but Good luck anyway!

Offline Barry Farms

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Re: Opinions on the 5-day CO-Synch + CIDR program
« Reply #34 on: April 13, 2014, 08:57:51 PM »
Just bred four cows on five day program.Two had patches off at the five day mark when pulled cidr,put new on cause didn't know what that was about. when bred at 70 hours all cows had get feel heat with one cow in heat heavily previous night,two not showing no heat and one coming in,bred all with GNRH shot.will do some more next weekend so ill update in 283 days.Still cant believe im breeding for calving in February again after this past winter.

I bred some Saturday and they are due January 19, 2015. Next group will be AI'd for February 2, 2015 calves. Decided to breed three separate groups of cows this year so that we have 'insurance' .If group 1 calves in a blizzard its better than having all of them in a blizzard.... Two groups of about 8 cows and 1 group of 13 heifers.
"The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits."
-Albert Einstein

Offline pweaver

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Re: Opinions on the 5-day CO-Synch + CIDR program
« Reply #35 on: May 12, 2014, 09:35:36 PM »
Used the 5 1/2 day this past week like I had planned and here are the results.  Pulled Cidr's with 4 cc. Estrumate Thurs. evening on five cows.  Nothing till Sun. at 2 p.m. (about 66 hours post Cidr) with one cow standing in pretty hot heat.  We TAI Sun. eve. about 7 (72 hrs. post Cidr) two cows that were showing nothing at all and two others that were wanting to mount but neither stood.  And we watched till dark plus had patches on them.  This morning, Mon. at 7, we bred the one in heat Sun. p.m. and rebred the two showing some activity.  My wife is our AI tech and she said four of them felt good with the fifth a hard breed, but she always is.  Crooked cervix.  Does this scenario sound like the norm?  Anything you would have done different?

Offline hntwhitetail

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Re: Opinions on the 5-day CO-Synch + CIDR program
« Reply #36 on: May 12, 2015, 01:28:19 PM »
So.. what is everyone's thoughts 1 year later?  I'll be setting up some heifers and cows in the upcoming weeks for a few people. 

Offline cowpoke1977

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Re: Opinions on the 5-day CO-Synch + CIDR program
« Reply #37 on: November 06, 2019, 11:58:00 PM »
We wanted to set up some cows for this protocol on Saturday. One of them got in with the herd bull and got bred about 3 weeks ago. Should I give her a shot of Lute tommorow before we put CIDR in Saturday?

Offline shortybreeder

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Re: Opinions on the 5-day CO-Synch + CIDR program
« Reply #38 on: November 07, 2019, 05:52:35 AM »
We wanted to set up some cows for this protocol on Saturday. One of them got in with the herd bull and got bred about 3 weeks ago. Should I give her a shot of Lute tommorow before we put CIDR in Saturday?
You're going to need more then 48 hours between the Lut and CIDR. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but here's the general idea behind how the products work: the female develops a CL every 3 weeks. It goes through its growth cycle, and when she isn't pregnant she goes through Estrus ~3 days after the CL "matures." If she becomes pregnant, she maintains the CL (but now it has a different name that escapes me). The idea behind a CIDR is that it provides the hormone (prostaglandin F-2alpha) which mimics pregnancy and maintains the CL in the state just before estrus would occur. By hitting the pause button, you can synchronize a group of heifers at different phases because they will still develop their follicles to that point without going further. The Lutalyse causes the CL to lyse (think of a pimple popping), and then a non-pregnant female will be in estrus 3 days later ready to breed--or it will terminate the pregnancy that was being maintained.

Now for why your plan won't work: if you Lut her 2 days before the CIDR goes in, you'll have 2 things working against you. The less likely--maybe the Lut isn't active enough and the CIDR presents PGF2A which maintains the pregnancy anyways (unlikely but possible). Or, the most likely, she will be at the wrong point in her cycle for the CIDR to work. It will take her more than just the 5 days of the CIDR to develop a follicle that will be ready to be bred.

Now before anyone rips me apart on semantics, I'm sure some of the terminology (when it's a CL vs follicle) above isn't 100% on the mark because it's been a long while since I've researched this, but that's my best shot at conveying the general concepts.

Offline cowpoke1977

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Re: Opinions on the 5-day CO-Synch + CIDR program
« Reply #39 on: November 07, 2019, 06:24:44 AM »
Thank you for the reply. I thought that was the case. I might just leave her alone and see if she comes back in heat again. If she doesnt, score one for the herd bull.

Offline Steve123

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Re: Opinions on the 5-day CO-Synch + CIDR program
« Reply #40 on: November 07, 2019, 11:58:00 AM »
You have to be at about day 11 before you get a CL that will regress.

Offline CAB

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Re: Opinions on the 5-day CO-Synch + CIDR program
« Reply #41 on: November 07, 2019, 12:34:40 PM »
Here's what I would do, give the bred a shot of Lute, ( I actually prefer Estrumate ), I think that the cow will come in approximately 3 days laters. I would breed her on that heat cycle as I normally would. I don't think that the embryo has attached itself to the uterine wall yet. If you stop to think about it, the pregnancy has taken the place of the cidr.

Offline shortybreeder

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Re: Opinions on the 5-day CO-Synch + CIDR program
« Reply #42 on: November 07, 2019, 12:59:09 PM »
Here's what I would do, give the bred a shot of Lute, ( I actually prefer Estrumate ), I think that the cow will come in approximately 3 days laters. I would breed her on that heat cycle as I normally would. I don't think that the embryo has attached itself to the uterine wall yet. If you stop to think about it, the pregnancy has taken the place of the cidr.
This could very well work.. worst case you're out 1 unit of semen and the cost of the Technician but you saved the cost of a CIDR/shots

Offline CAB

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Re: Opinions on the 5-day CO-Synch + CIDR program
« Reply #43 on: November 07, 2019, 06:07:47 PM »
It'll work very well if the pregnancy is not too far along. 3 weeks will have a very good chance of working. I've done it in the past and it worked well.

 

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