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Author Topic: Outsider and perfection?  (Read 1377 times)

Offline Jacob B

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Outsider and perfection?
« on: October 05, 2021, 10:41:36 AM »
Does anyone see the major breeders that everyone copies begin the breed to perfection or djs outsider? I think both are plenty useful bulls but the masses wont use em till the big guys do first. I wish I could get an outsider or perfection female out of a really good cow family

Offline oakview

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Re: Outsider and perfection?
« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2021, 10:55:37 AM »
Until the "new blood" starts to beat what they already have, they're going to use what they have confidence in.  Hot Commodity went from a somewhat lesser known bull to one of the elites after his progeny started to find consistent success in the showring.  The folks that produce those animals are not likely to experiment too much until they know for sure what they're going to get.  There have been several outcross bulls used in the herds that emphasize show heifers, most with limited success as far as the showring goes.  That doesn't mean they were of poor quality or had little usefulness, they just weren't as good at producing what these producers desired.   

Offline Mainevent

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Re: Outsider and perfection?
« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2021, 02:28:59 PM »
Theyre going to have to prove functionality in a herd before anyone uses them for replacement females.
If you don't have time to do it right, when will you have time to do it over? - John Wooden

Offline jconner2088

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Re: Outsider and perfection?
« Reply #3 on: October 05, 2021, 09:15:43 PM »
We flushed to perfection got 10 eggs put 6. We have 2 heifer rest bulls. Might be some of the best heifers we have had. I can say those 2 heifers will be staying it is still earlier but they look the part. Will be flushing back same way in nov. and also be doing some ivf to him on a few red white roan heifers we have.
It's suppose to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard is what makes it great.

Offline Weezie

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Re: Outsider and perfection?
« Reply #4 on: October 05, 2021, 09:24:23 PM »
I guess it depends on what major breeders you have in mind. I agree with both of the comments above. The big boys aren't going to dabble until the bulls have enough proven results. They will let everyone else take the risk and they will keep making the same genetics that work for them.

Look at what Cates is doing. They bought Boardwalk and used him for a while. Now they are dabbling in the PVF and JSF scene for outcross bulls. All the while still using Solution and HC lines. The last FSF bull I can remember Cates using was Cornerstone and that wasn't a huge success. That said I do think Perfection is a lot better. WHR just bought Easy Rider and they are still using Waco, Low Rider, Bloodstone, etc. As long as those matings still work they are going to keep using them. If you want to see Perfection or The Outsider on a specific cow line, then your best bet is to buy a cow from that cow family and use The Outsider and Perfection on them.

Essentially, make what you want to see. Take the risk and if it works big copying will be the biggest form of flattery.

Online Medium Rare

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Re: Outsider and perfection?
« Reply #5 on: October 05, 2021, 09:54:24 PM »
Unfortunately, I'm not sure it makes financial sense for them to use a genetic source that they can't control.

I do wish more of the smaller breeders would actually breed cattle instead of just replicate.

Offline mark tenenbaum

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Re: Outsider and perfection?
« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2021, 10:33:38 AM »
Considering the time frame when Compton got outsider in use-there are already A TON of Outsider females and they are coming into production Not all of them are registered  The ones Jim Compton produced are making  good first calvers but come from good cows Outsider is also a pretty good sized bull-Perfection is more terminal and needs to be used on larger cows JMO O0
« Last Edit: October 08, 2021, 10:44:50 AM by mark tenenbaum »

Offline jconner2088

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Re: Outsider and perfection?
« Reply #7 on: October 10, 2021, 10:50:15 AM »
I would  agree the perfection is a more terminal sire. The cow we flushed to him is not at all that large frames she is one of our smaller framed shorthorns. We also bred to a mab cow and got a pretty good heifer a couple of days ago. We will see how they grow but right now pretty impressed.
It's suppose to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard is what makes it great.

Offline shortybreeder

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Re: Outsider and perfection?
« Reply #8 on: October 25, 2021, 05:14:16 PM »
I think you're better off if the 'big dogs' don't experiment with some of the bulls you'd like to try. As soon as they try a new bull, plenty of people line up to copy them and the price skyrockets. Boardwalk is a great example--if memory serves, he sold for $2500 in Leveldale's online sale because nobody else bid. Cates made more than that on the first 5 units of semen they sold--I think the first 2 units they offered nearly paid for the bull.

I'll echo Weezie's comment--if you want to see it done, make the investment and hope it pays off. A lot cheaper to do it before the big breeders try it.

Offline Duncraggan

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Re: Outsider and perfection?
« Reply #9 on: November 01, 2021, 01:16:07 PM »
I think you're better off if the 'big dogs' don't experiment with some of the bulls you'd like to try. As soon as they try a new bull, plenty of people line up to copy them and the price skyrockets. Boardwalk is a great example--if memory serves, he sold for $2500 in Leveldale's online sale because nobody else bid. Cates made more than that on the first 5 units of semen they sold--I think the first 2 units they offered nearly paid for the bull.

I'll echo Weezie's comment--if you want to see it done, make the investment and hope it pays off. A lot cheaper to do it before the big breeders try it.
This statement sums it up beautifully!

Offline mark tenenbaum

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Re: Outsider and perfection?
« Reply #10 on: November 04, 2021, 05:54:28 PM »
Jim Compton is by no means a BIG Breeder AT ALL Though alot of "big" people (fat maybe? lol) in the clique are scaired to see the kind of unmolested,original breeding- fresh quality he brings to shows He stands up in class at alot of National deals and has had division champs etc but rarely gets his due considering the cattle he presents He took an unknown bull out of a pasture (Outsider subject of this thread) and  in one breeding season he began a run to the most widely used Shorthorn bull (AI TO THE MERE MORTALS) in the breed He has a couple bull calves he raised out of his doners coming that should be just as effective Hes proof that if you put in the effort and know how to breed them-The quality shines through even at the most political arenas with the complete MORONS that ive seen judge lately Particularly the DOOFUS who judged the Cattlemans Congress last year-Every reason for every animal was a simple script that was probably handed to him by the assoc.-And was so dumb my 6 year old niece could beat him in a judging contest LOL  O0

 

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