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Author Topic: Pumping/Airing of Showsteers-Any way to control this?  (Read 31957 times)

Offline Redwine Cattle

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Re: Pumping/Airing of Showsteers-Any way to control this?
« Reply #15 on: January 17, 2011, 04:19:32 PM »
i don't see what the big deal is. its just enhancements same as feed supplements fake hair adhesives and anything your fitter does to create and illusion on your calf and like showstopper said if you get rid of one thing then you have to get rid of everything. its not like its plastic surgery and you have completely changed your calf. its like saying a **** job on a woman is unethical. sure its not fair when you don't go as far as airing pumping and implanting and you get beat by one who has but that's what separates the best from the rest.

You are wrong. It is like plastic surgery. Basically you are saying that if you stand second to a calf that has been artifically enhanced, you essentially deserve to be second because you didn't do the necessary steps in order to be the best? I think your entire post is nothing more than a childish, selfish, and unthethical excuse to cheat. Apparently you can't raise good enough cattle to win without artifically enhancing them, so you are attempting to rationalize the actions of someone that doesn't deserve to be in the barn. I feel the same way about twining a calfs leg to appear larger boned. The problem with comparing it to breast augmentation, is that the women who decide to have it done do it knowingly, with their consent, also, they do not compete in contests. Using adhesive doesn't create something that the calf genetically doesn't already have, or naturally grow, the same with clippers, they don't create anything that the calf doesn't already have.
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Offline showsteernc

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Re: Pumping/Airing of Showsteers-Any way to control this?
« Reply #16 on: January 17, 2011, 04:27:05 PM »
i don't see what the big deal is. its just enhancements same as feed supplements fake hair adhesives and anything your fitter does to create and illusion on your calf and like showstopper said if you get rid of one thing then you have to get rid of everything. its not like its plastic surgery and you have completely changed your calf. its like saying a **** job on a woman is unethical. sure its not fair when you don't go as far as airing pumping and implanting and you get beat by one who has but that's what separates the best from the rest.

 The problem with comparing it to breast augmentation, is that the women who decide to have it done do it knowingly, with their consent, also, they do not compete in contests.
Oh yes they do, beauty contests. Sorry, but that is whole other can of worms that probably shouldn't be brought into this discussion.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2011, 04:30:15 PM by showsteernc »

Offline farmin female

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Re: Pumping/Airing of Showsteers-Any way to control this?
« Reply #17 on: January 17, 2011, 05:30:23 PM »
i don't see what the big deal is. its just enhancements same as feed supplements fake hair adhesives and anything your fitter does to create and illusion on your calf and like showstopper said if you get rid of one thing then you have to get rid of everything. its not like its plastic surgery and you have completely changed your calf. its like saying a **** job on a woman is unethical. sure its not fair when you don't go as far as airing pumping and implanting and you get beat by one who has but that's what separates the best from the rest.

 The problem with comparing it to breast augmentation, is that the women who decide to have it done do it knowingly, with their consent, also, they do not compete in contests.
Oh yes they do, beauty contests. Sorry, but that is whole other can of worms that probably shouldn't be brought into this discussion.

This is getting to be one of my pet peeves on this site, every time a truly controversal topic is brought up someone jumps right in there and says we shouldn't discuss it.  Sorry, you can't use the excuse that this site might be monitored by undesirables all the time cause it's just crying wolf to me.  These topics need to be discussed and brought out into the open so it is understood that there are a significant number of people out there who don't agree with these actions.  Injecting, pumping, filling - they are all immoral and unethical.  But you do what you choose to win.  Don't drag me down the same road as you though.

Offline gobigorgohome

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Re: Pumping/Airing of Showsteers-Any way to control this?
« Reply #18 on: January 17, 2011, 06:13:36 PM »
its illegal and frowned apon, the risk is anyones to take enough said i believe.
muscle matters.....limousins have it. :)

Offline showsteernc

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Re: Pumping/Airing of Showsteers-Any way to control this?
« Reply #19 on: January 17, 2011, 08:34:20 PM »
i don't see what the big deal is. its just enhancements same as feed supplements fake hair adhesives and anything your fitter does to create and illusion on your calf and like showstopper said if you get rid of one thing then you have to get rid of everything. its not like its plastic surgery and you have completely changed your calf. its like saying a **** job on a woman is unethical. sure its not fair when you don't go as far as airing pumping and implanting and you get beat by one who has but that's what separates the best from the rest.

 The problem with comparing it to breast augmentation, is that the women who decide to have it done do it knowingly, with their consent, also, they do not compete in contests.
Oh yes they do, beauty contests. Sorry, but that is whole other can of worms that probably shouldn't be brought into this discussion.

This is getting to be one of my pet peeves on this site, every time a truly controversal topic is brought up someone jumps right in there and says we shouldn't discuss it.  Sorry, you can't use the excuse that this site might be monitored by undesirables all the time cause it's just crying wolf to me.  These topics need to be discussed and brought out into the open so it is understood that there are a significant number of people out there who don't agree with these actions.  Injecting, pumping, filling - they are all immoral and unethical.  But you do what you choose to win.  Don't drag me down the same road as you though.
FWIW, I was saying the discussion about humans and airing (to be polite) was a can of worms. If you look back, I was openly discussing airing and the ethics behind it.

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Re: Pumping/Airing of Showsteers-Any way to control this?
« Reply #20 on: January 17, 2011, 09:38:25 PM »
I do know for a fact that the Ohio Cattlemen's Association is bringing in the Ohio Department of Agriculture this show season to check cattle for air pumping. This is reportedly a problem in Ohio right now and there have been some complaints. These kinds of practices need to be stopped. There needs to be a crackdown on this and the people who are doing it need to be banned from showing in certain sanctioned shows and their breed association needs to be contacted and get involved in the cheating. A lot of the problems are probably in the crossbred classes but the breed associations can take action to ban breeders from registering cattle and kick them out of the association. In my opinion, other unethical practices like reporting false birthdates on show cattle and false birthweights needs to be stopped. It's ridiculous when people are showing a calf as a May and it is a March. Different thread.

Offline DLD

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Re: Pumping/Airing of Showsteers-Any way to control this?
« Reply #21 on: January 17, 2011, 10:03:32 PM »
There've been a couple of good discussions about this in the past, if you'll take the time to use the search feature and find them.  As chambero said, it's certainly nothing new - it predates the 1970's even, maybe by quite a bit.  It also does not make the huge, drastic difference in a calf that many seem to think it does - chances are if you got beat by one that's been aired, the same calf would've probably beat you without the air anyway.  It can't make a light muscled one heavy muscled, or a bad one into a good one. There is no way of knowing it's been done, unless there's actually still air there - if there is, then by all means crucify them, but 'most anyone that does it won't show one before the air goes away.  I know that none of that makes it any more right, and I'm sure not defending it, but I really don't see any way to change it.
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Offline Show Time King

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Re: Pumping/Airing of Showsteers-Any way to control this?
« Reply #22 on: January 18, 2011, 06:30:17 AM »
Actually it is like plastic surgery and it is a cosmetic enhancement that does not have any veterinary health value.  The "enhanced" calf is a phony fraud.

I dont want to really get into the middle of this but I just couldn't help but look at it in this way. Yes, your technically cosmetically altering your calve and changing its appearance to win. But look at it this way. Women who compete in pageants "fit" themselves up and even get "cosmetically" altering surgery to better there apperance or chances of winning. Its the same in the cattle world and its only human to try and experiment to make things better. Is it right or ethical? Heck no,  but are we gonna change it? imo I don't think we can at this point in time. Until people can prove that its being done then we just have to deal with it at this time.

I myself have never aired anything but can say that I dont think its a "crime" that someone airs a hip or a top. Its wrong and I dont like it but what I can't stand is some of these big time breeders that play arts and crafts with there sale calves just to turn a 5,000 dollar steer into a 30,000 dollar steer. I mean thats like turning Betty White into Jessica Alba. (No Pun Intended Betty White is awesome) but just saying.

I hope I didn't offend anyone and As I stated I do not agree at all with airing of cattle I was just trying to throw a point I thought was valid into the mix

Offline farwest

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Re: Pumping/Airing of Showsteers-Any way to control this?
« Reply #23 on: January 18, 2011, 08:31:03 AM »
What bothers me most about it is its big ammo for peta and hsus when they get ahold of it.

Offline 4C

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Re: Pumping/Airing of Showsteers-Any way to control this?
« Reply #24 on: January 18, 2011, 08:34:37 AM »
I can't believe people are ignorant enough to be comparing airing of showcalves to the body augmentations of women that participate in beauty pageants.  I'd venture to say that there are no rules/policies in beauty pageants that ban participants from having any parts of their body "enhanced".  There are RULES (you know guidelines that good/honest people follow) in place at most shows throughout the country that specifically ban unethical fitting which physically or physiologically attempts to alter the natural confirmation or musculature of an animal.  Enough of these asinine comparisons to the beauty contests!  Apples and oranges, BIG TIME!

Offline Redwine Cattle

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Re: Pumping/Airing of Showsteers-Any way to control this?
« Reply #25 on: January 18, 2011, 08:50:20 AM »
I agree with that. There is not a way (at this point) to effectively test or control these activities. I also agree with your statement about women competing in pageants. I didn't think about that before, and after looking at the rules for pageants like "miss america" they do not have an actual "rule" that says no cosmetic surgery. Although they have tried many different ways to control it, they haven't found one that is effective yet.

My problem with it is that women make the choice to do it. When someone does it to their cattle, I seriously doubt they ask them for their consent. Now I also think to my own operation when I say that, and I find it difficult to not consider dehorning for an example. I'm sure that hurts like no other, and I didn't ask for consent when I had it done to them either. I'm sure if it was up to them they would just as well leave their horns where they are. But we dehorn them anyway. In my opinion there is definitely a fine line. A line that is extremely difficult to draw.

Cattle are cattle, they are put on this earth for beef. We as breeders/owners of cattle do our best to care for them to the best of our ability. I guess the bottom line for me is this, when I look at myself in the mirror and go to bed at night, I can feel good that I did my best. I am a golfer, a game of integrity. I take the same approach to cattle, and if a calf that I raised stands second or third or seventh, I will know that I did everything right. That there is nothing about that calf that god didn't give it. If he doesn't win because he cuts up in his flank, then next year I will try and breed that cow to a bull that will add a little depth and try again. That is what I enjoy about this, and I sincerely hope my children will do the same.      
"Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity"       ~Seneca

Offline GoWyo

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Re: Pumping/Airing of Showsteers-Any way to control this?
« Reply #26 on: January 18, 2011, 09:04:10 AM »
There is a difference between dehorning (has a veterinary/animal health/safety value) and doing mechanical work under the skin of your animal to make it look like something it is not in order to win a prize or to boost its perceived value.  Not only is it against most show rules from an animal health standpoint, but it is a fraud upon each and every other exhibitor, the show committee, the public, and any purchaser of your animal.  It boils down to theft, plain and simple, and there is no way to justify it. 

The hard part is catching it because it is difficult to prove.  If you see it happening, document it and follow the show protest procedures to the "T," but be prepared for the other fraudsters to ostracize you.  You will find out who your friends are very quickly.
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Offline pjkjr4

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Re: Pumping/Airing of Showsteers-Any way to control this?
« Reply #27 on: January 18, 2011, 09:05:27 AM »
Interesting discussion here. Probably one of the best that I've read on here in quite some time. This is the reason I'm a steer planet junkie!

In my opinion, the answer to the original post is probably not. Is it ethical? That is for you to decide. If you do it, don't tell me about it, because frankly I don't really care what you do with your calf. Your're the one that will have to sleep with that. I also agree with the post that said it doesn't do much, because it doesn't. Does it grow more hair? No. Does it give the impression of heavier bone? No. Does it clean up a front end? No. Does it accentuate a thicker top or hip? A little, but not very much.

I think we all agree that one of the main goals we have for our cattle, is to make them better in the show ring than what they really are. Some people just use questionable tactics and techniques to do so. It's called being competitive. I'm not taking up for those people, but I damn sure want to beat them.

Offline Redwine Cattle

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Re: Pumping/Airing of Showsteers-Any way to control this?
« Reply #28 on: January 18, 2011, 09:22:45 AM »
There is a difference between dehorning (has a veterinary/animal health/safety value) and doing mechanical work under the skin of your animal to make it look like something it is not in order to win a prize or to boost its perceived value.  Not only is it against most show rules from an animal health standpoint, but it is a fraud upon each and every other exhibitor, the show committee, the public, and any purchaser of your animal.  It boils down to theft, plain and simple, and there is no way to justify it.

I couldn't agree more with this. I was simply trying to think of a contradiction to my arguement with the dehorning thing. It's all about character, there is no way to police it. In today's society I am not surprised in the least at what measures some will take to "get ahead" whether it actually does or not. Sickening.

The same goes for birthweights. There was a post in the classifieds for a September born heifer, I actually had some conversation with the poster who has the animal for sale and he cited possibilties for her size, and I am certainly not saying he is lying, I have no clue. But I also have 2 september heifers that were born within a week of that same heifer and both are outweighed by id say 200 pounds. But, it sucks to have your heifer papered with her actual birthweight and she goes to a show, is the smallest heifer there ( although exceeding breed averages for weaning and yearling weight by quite a bit) and the judge says she just doesn't have enough "grow" to her compared the the other heifers in the class. But I digress, sorry to change the subject...
"Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity"       ~Seneca

Offline ai er

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Re: Pumping/Airing of Showsteers-Any way to control this?
« Reply #29 on: January 18, 2011, 11:58:59 AM »
I can't believe people are ignorant enough to be comparing airing of showcalves to the body augmentations of women that participate in beauty pageants.  I'd venture to say that there are no rules/policies in beauty pageants that ban participants from having any parts of their body "enhanced".  There are RULES (you know guidelines that good/honest people follow) in place at most shows throughout the country that specifically ban unethical fitting which physically or physiologically attempts to alter the natural confirmation or musculature of an animal.  Enough of these asinine comparisons to the beauty contests!  Apples and oranges, BIG TIME!

I agree totally.
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