Semen Prices on New Bulls

I agree with nkotb that it's worth what the person is willing to pay for it. What I don't understand is why bulls that almost every semen distributor lists for between $25 and $30 goes for considerably more when they put it an internet auction?  Is the market changing where an average price for the more popular sires will be $50 rather than $25 or $30?

aj said:

I often wondered if I pulled semen on a bull. If semen is priced at 15$.......just to get things rolling........do people think he must not be any good cause of the price. Maybe pricing him at 25$ might be a marketing plan. Heck everbody knows a 25$ semen bull is better than a 15$ bull? There are acres acres of semen out there.

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Yes I absolutely think this would happen at $15.Because of the supply-demand this country is based on gives this theory some merit on face value. I mean if a Bull is kicking out great calves and is in demand why would it be priced at 15$. That being said their are some good bulls out there at lower prices just not advertised and promoted. If you want to do an experiment put something out and put free on it, it will set there for weeks, put $200 on it and BAM stolen that night. LOL.

ps  certificate cost  is what is starting to burn my A$$.

Prices go up that is a given. Is collecting cost more? Price of animals? Storage cost? Advertisement and promotion cost? This topic could be paralleled with the favorite spring topic how much to spend on a herd sire.  If your paying the same for a bull or semen that you payed 10 or 15 years ago then you are most likely getting less of a product for your dollar.IMO 

We AI everything we have. We shop for the bulls based on their numbers. We only will pay a higher cost as they are proven for the showring, a new comer set at ah igher price means nothing for us., they have to be proven. If anybody wants to pay a higher price for an unproven bull that is thier option. We have to justify all our cost as do many others, once that high semen cost calve is done in the showring, they have to be a producer in the herd. Thats my 2cents worth.

blackdiamond said:

Bi-Lane Livestock said:

So I am a little confused, you have one calf by year and if you like a bull, have seen him and think he's good what would stop you from paying more money for semen on him, proven or not?  I mean come on $20-25 per straw and there asking $60 or $100, what's 4 or 80 bucks on a calf for show purpose? I think all bullls are underpriced especially when you look at the show pig or show lamb deal where young, unproven, good boars that are a high seller will sometimes go for seven- a grand per dose, and ya need to put 2 doses in em.  Personally if I like the bull and think he will work on the particular cow I will spend a little bit more money,  granted I am not breeding 300 cows that way but for making high-quality show calves I will pay a little bit more to make the final product.

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number of offspring born compared cow to sow...  probably x10?

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So lower end of that, $700/dose x 2 doses = $1400/litter/10 pigs in the littler if your lucky = semen cost of $140/pig born?

pf said:

Bi-Lane Livestock said:

So I am a little confused, you have one calf by year and if you like a bull, have seen him and think he's good what would stop you from paying more money for semen on him, proven or not?  I mean come on $20-25 per straw and there asking $60 or $100, what's 4 or 80 bucks on a calf for show purpose? I think all bullls are underpriced especially when you look at the show pig or show lamb deal where young, unproven, good boars that are a high seller will sometimes go for seven- a grand per dose, and ya need to put 2 doses in em.  Personally if I like the bull and think he will work on the particular cow I will spend a little bit more money,  granted I am not breeding 300 cows that way but for making high-quality show calves I will pay a little bit more to make the final product.

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Bi-Lane... knock it off with that commen sense stuff, thats ridiculous.!!!! You shouldn't be posting things that make sense, your out of line!

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I know PF, I gots to get on some Meds!

The point of high priced semen on a young or unproven sire is to control the quality of females being bred to that bull. Is it a risk on the bull owner's part?...yes. He stands a chance of pricing the bull out of the market...some people (like us) aren't likely to use a young bull that costs a lot more to use. I don't think they're worried about that, because a lot of us probably don't have $10,000 females we'd use him on anyway. If you look at this from a marketing standpoint, it's a protection from getting that bull on every grade of cow out there, and protection from having calves out of subpar cows enter the marketplace as this bull's offspring. My intent is not to justify the high prices, but I think you have to consider the reasoning behind doing it from another perspective. I think I have some pretty decent females, but I'm also able to recognize and accept that my program is not necessarily a target market for a guy who's trying to promote a high dollar bull.

leanbeef said:

The point of high priced semen on a young or unproven sire is to control the quality of females being bred to that bull. Is it a risk on the bull owner's part?...yes. He stands a chance of pricing the bull out of the market...some people (like us) aren't likely to use a young bull that costs a lot more to use. I don't think they're worried about that, because a lot of us probably don't have $10,000 females we'd use him on anyway. If you look at this from a marketing standpoint, it's a protection from getting that bull on every grade of cow out there, and protection from having calves out of subpar cows enter the marketplace as this bull's offspring. My intent is not to justify the high prices, but I think you have to consider the reasoning behind doing it from another perspective. I think I have some pretty decent females, but I'm also able to recognize and accept that my program is not necessarily a target market for a guy who's trying to promote a high dollar bull.

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I agree and I think you also have to ask yourself, what is my market share? If you are able to sell $2000 calves on up, you are probably able to spend the extra money on the higher priced semen. If you are like most everyone else and take most of your calves to the sale barn @ the end of the day, it is probably very, very hard to justify paying more than $30.00 tops for any given bull. Usually the smallest amount of semen that a person has to take is 5 units, but granted that is changing some.

CAB said:

leanbeef said:

The point of high priced semen on a young or unproven sire is to control the quality of females being bred to that bull. Is it a risk on the bull owner's part?...yes. He stands a chance of pricing the bull out of the market...some people (like us) aren't likely to use a young bull that costs a lot more to use. I don't think they're worried about that, because a lot of us probably don't have $10,000 females we'd use him on anyway. If you look at this from a marketing standpoint, it's a protection from getting that bull on every grade of cow out there, and protection from having calves out of subpar cows enter the marketplace as this bull's offspring. My intent is not to justify the high prices, but I think you have to consider the reasoning behind doing it from another perspective. I think I have some pretty decent females, but I'm also able to recognize and accept that my program is not necessarily a target market for a guy who's trying to promote a high dollar bull.

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I agree and I think you also have to ask yourself, what is my market share? If you are able to sell $2000 calves on up, you are probably able to spend the extra money on the higher priced semen. If you are like most everyone else and take most of your calves to the sale barn @ the end of the day, it is probably very, very hard to justify paying more than $30.00 tops for any given bull. Usually the smallest amount of semen that a person has to take is 5 units, but granted that is changing some.

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To my point... "If you are like most everyone else and take most of your calves to the sale barn" then I don't think anybody who's trying to promote his bull is after your semen business!

Personally, I don't care if the semen is $20 or $200, odds are, I am probably not going to buy semen on an unproven bull.  I would much rather wait until the next year, see some calves and then decide.  For me, the price of semen is so miniscule in comparison to the cost of raising a show calf, that I don't really care how much I have to spend on semen (within reason), but I would much rather just get proven semen, especially since there are so many bulls out there to pick from.  IMO, it's just not worth it to risk putting an unproven bull on one of my show-calf producing cows, when there's a chance the calf won't turn out (and I mean there is always a chance of this happening, I know that, but I would like to minimize this risk), because IF that calf ends up not turning out, then I've lost a year out of that cow.

End game is what determines the semen I buy, I have cows that I will buy more expensive semen on especially if it is sexed and I am trying to breed for a specific mating and if that is a new unproven bull then so be it. Like wise I have cows that I would rather have steer calves from and most of the time proven genetics do the job better for me. But many of the prove sires that I want to use will cost as much or more than the new bull on an auction or in a limited semen package offered for a limited time. If you are trying to raise the best most competitive product then what difference does it make if it is $20 or $100 ?

I am always a bit mystified by what has been happening with semen prices over the years. My dad started AIing cows in the mid 1960s and any semen he purchased was consistently $20 per dose back then. I remember him paying $50 per dose for semen off a popular bull at the time and saying that he hoped the calves would be easier to sell and be worth more to make this worthwhile.I remember him paying $2200 for 50 doses of semen from a bull in a dispersal sale in 1968. We made a pile of money from the calves produced from that semen.  We started selling semen off some of our own bulls in the early 70s. We never priced any bull under $30 per dose and we sold more semen each year back then than we do in a decade now. It was possible to pay for a herdsire from semen sales before any of his calves were born. We did that with several different sires. I purchased a bull called Ready Go at a record price of $5300 in the American Polled Congress in 1973. I had sold over $10,000 of semen before his first natural calf was born here. It is interesting that I am still selling semen from him, and just sold 6 doses two nights ago. I priced his semen at $35/ dose in 1973 and I do not remember ever having anyone question the price. Today it is still priced at $35/ dose and I have several people complain that is a pretty steep price for semen. I tell them that if they think it is too high then buy semen from numerous cheaper priced bulls.

It seems to me, that semen prices are one of the few things in my business that has not gone up in price in the past 40-50 years. When I consider what our cattle sold for in that era, compared to the prices today, I think people are getting very good value from semen prices today. in any era, there are lots of bulls that don't prove to be improvers. There are always some that do. There is no guarantees with any of them.

justintime said:

It seems to me, that semen prices are one of the few things in my business that has not gone up in price in the past 40-50 years. When I consider what our cattle sold for in that era, compared to the prices today, I think people are getting very good value from semen prices today. in any era, there are lots of bulls that don't prove to be improvers. There are always some that do. There is no guarantees with any of them.

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Spot on!

The mark up is redicous on semen. Guys got rich on bulls that sold at $15. Everybody thinks they have a great one. Remember when buyer out numbered sellers. Now sellers out number buyer. The entire industry is messed up. All the BS prices on cattle just fuels it more.

I would rather use a 2-3 year bull that has some proof and IMO the semen is better QUALITY after the Rookie year ....

Freddy said:

I would rather use a 2-3 year bull that has some proof and IMO the semen is better QUALITY after the Rookie year ....

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do whaaaaat?

Freddy said:

I would rather use a 2-3 year bull that has some proof and IMO the semen is better QUALITY after the Rookie year ....

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Freddy, sometimes you come up with the craziest logic..... Must be why you have been in the cattle business a long time!

Look at the simmental bull One Eyed Jack at cattle visions. New, unproven, and they started him at $100. What warrants him being started at that price? Or a young bull like HOC Broker. I understand that he has had some good calves on the ground and maybe he will be the next hot simmental bull, but I still think $125 is a little pricey especially when you have to buy a minimum of 10 units. I would be willing to pay the 125 but i dont necessarily want 10 units.

john91 said:

Look at the simmental bull One Eyed Jack at cattle visions. New, unproven, and they started him at $100. What warrants him being started at that price? Or a young bull like HOC Broker. I understand that he has had some good calves on the ground and maybe he will be the next hot simmental bull, but I still think $125 is a little pricey especially when you have to buy a minimum of 10 units. I would be willing to pay the 125 but i dont necessarily want 10 units.

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I don't know anything about this Simmy bull amd why he has been priced at this level. I do know of some bulls that have been priced at high $$ simply they want to use this price to control the quality of females he is used on. I don't necessarily follow this logic, but they feel only the very best cows will get this semen and as a result there is a much better chance of getting an outstanding set of calves from the sire, even if it is a limited number of them.  I'm just saying that sometimes bulls are priced at higher values to actually limit his use .

We clipped bulls here are our place today and I had an Angus breeder help me. He was telling me that a female he was involved in, was being flushed to some Angus semen that was priced at $30,000/ straw. He said this bull died young but the few calves off him were pretty amazing. I hear there were two bulls in the recent Schaff Angus Valley sale that sold for $400,000. I wonder what their semen will be priced at? 

Disclaimer, we do not do what I am about to say in our operation.

If people are out their to raise steers, why pay high dollars for semen on unproven sires when you can buy reasonable priced semen on a proven one, or a clone.  If you get a good one, just call it out of the high priced semen bull.  Again, we do not do this, but don't tell me this isn't done.  Kind of like how no calves were sold this fall out of 65,000 calves online out of clean up bulls.  And how do we have two different sires being claimed as the sire of the Champion at Louisville?