SH Heifer - Breeding Advice

That's what i'm talking about!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Majority of you guys on here are breeding for the ''barn burnin' great one", and complain when Y'uns sometimes get the "cow-killin'dead one". You say, and I quote you directly,"Both the (sire's name deleted) calves are pretty good but I would say he is unpredictable on calving ease, much like all the Shorthorn bulls".
You guys whine about the dead ones, and keep using "chancy" Sires. Sharpen your knife & count to two.

No wonder Bolze had a rough time.

GB
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I don't know that Deadwood is promoted as a calving ease sire. I mean he only has 4 calves registered. As far as the chancy sire thing goes I geuss it depends on what you are trying to accomplish. You can try for the "barn burnin one" if you use your head. No bull is a guaranteed sure thing on anything , siring the great one , calving ease sire or siring a piece of crap. It's all a "chancy" thing. It's just your odds are better on some. But you have to use your head & ask for advice.

I agree!  When I mentioned SS Deadwood, I said"you may want to consider him" !!  I also said "we had good luck with him on 1 heifer and I'd heard some good things about him".  I did not say go out and breed a 100 cows to him.  I know what his BW EPD is and I also know that the Shorthorn breed is far behind on measuring calving ease.  Believe it or not somewhat larger birth weights do not always mean that a bull is not a good choice for calving ease.  We have had fairly large birthweights out of Money Man(90-105 pounds) but I still think I'd consider him a fairly good choice for calving ease.  I think any bull can have a large calf from time to time and maybe Deadwood will live up to his BW EPD over time.  My only intent was to offer another possible"tool in the box" for someone who doesn't want to spend $100/straw.

And yes my second post if read carefully is talking about certificate costs--Gizmo's is $30, not his semen!!

Respectfully and humbly submitted as my opinion which many times doesn't mean much to anybody but me!!  The Iowegian!!

cowboy - I sent you a PM. No sense in making "this squabble" public.

red said I was refering to you.....I didn't. Read the PM, it will make sense.

My donor IS 15 years old...and you said I had her in such good shape, you wanted me to bring her back this year.
Missing one cow of your own in 10 years is indeed impressive...that would be 99.9% yes? And good luck with your AI bull selections this year....with 12 cows of your own (that's close isn't it?) you at least won't have to buy much semen!!! Thats a good thing for the ol'checkbook!! (clapping)

And your definately right, it is NOT rocket science, heck, its not even brain surgery....its practice, practice, practice. And experience, experience, experience. Each of which you can not get over the internet or by asking questions.

The lack of paper work, although a formality to you, cost me $3200. Buyer didn't want to buy without it. And after waiting 6 months, he gave up and bought someone elses.  Kinda like DNA results....its his choice of wanting the paperwork, its his checkbook.

By the way...did you ever gain on those thisles??

I think this has went way out of whack.  I had at least 8 people email me wondering if you were talking about cowboy.  We've heard about this before for heavens sakes.  I have been quiet but bashing him was out of line.  I can remember a time even you asked him for advice on here.

Cowboy, chin up and keep on going.  Sometimes its not worth the fight.

oakbar said:

I agree!   When I mentioned SS Deadwood, I said"you may want to consider him" !!   I also said "we had good luck with him on 1 heifer and I'd heard some good things about him".   I did not say go out and breed a 100 cows to him.   I know what his BW EPD is and I also know that the Shorthorn breed is far behind on measuring calving ease.   Believe it or not somewhat larger birth weights do not always mean that a bull is not a good choice for calving ease.  We have had fairly large birthweights out of Money Man(90-105 pounds) but I still think I'd consider him a fairly good choice for calving ease.   I think any bull can have a large calf from time to time and maybe Deadwood will live up to his BW EPD over time.   My only intent was to offer another possible"tool in the box" for someone who doesn't want to spend $100/straw.

And yes my second post if read carefully is talking about certificate costs--Gizmo's is $30, not his semen!!

Respectfully and humbly submitted as my opinion which many times doesn't mean much to anybody but me!!   The Iowegian!!

Click to expand...

Actually, guys, a prospective AI sire, should be used on 100 cows first, with all data collected (with integrity), and all progeny evaluated for evry trait (while being subjected to an environmental challenge, however one that isn't too unrealistically harsh, as nearly all cow herds in the USA are  nutritionally supplemented during winter). Only then, would a newcomer to a breed know whether or or not one is a heifer bull, and, if his calves are something worth striving for.

I've never said my way was the only way. Show me, tell me what thread, that i said "Gary Bob for NCBA/R-CALF President". Heck, I don't ever want to be a County Agent, let alone a Feed Salesman, or Breed Ass'n Field Man. Never said it. Not once.

What I want is to be able to do, is raise good Shorthorn Cattle, and not get my rumpus handed back to me( no matter how muscular and easy-doing my calves are) when I sell calves. That can't happen for a small-potatoes guy until there are enough good Shorthorns produced in sufficient numbers (consistently, every time), closer to Feeding/Packing areas to get positive word out among the real-time players in Feeding and Packing Industries. Then, and only then, will there be enough folks in the industry understand the merits of Shorthorns & pay for them. For that to happen, we must all report data on every single calf born, Pasture to Plate.

Then again, if it were to happen, it would still take 15 or 20 years to ''trickle down'' to my part of the world. Heck! We're just now ''going black''. Only in the past 3 years, have local buyers here started to begin to pay attention to whether or not a calf has Angus breeding or physical characteristics. Before then, Black EXotic Bulls were being put across traditionally-colored Continental cows.

Change takes time. Sometimes, too much time. Freakin' turtle-speed around here!

GB

Done with the subject. I have taken care of the situation.....privately....which is the way it should have been handled to begin with.

oakbar said:

I agree!   When I mentioned SS Deadwood, I said"you may want to consider him" !!   I also said "we had good luck with him on 1 heifer and I'd heard some good things about him".   I did not say go out and breed a 100 cows to him.   I know what his BW EPD is and I also know that the Shorthorn breed is far behind on measuring calving ease.   Believe it or not somewhat larger birth weights do not always mean that a bull is not a good choice for calving ease.  We have had fairly large birthweights out of Money Man(90-105 pounds) but I still think I'd consider him a fairly good choice for calving ease.   I think any bull can have a large calf from time to time and maybe Deadwood will live up to his BW EPD over time.   My only intent was to offer another possible"tool in the box" for someone who doesn't want to spend $100/straw.

And yes my second post if read carefully is talking about certificate costs--Gizmo's is $30, not his semen!!

Respectfully and humbly submitted as my opinion which many times doesn't mean much to anybody but me!!   The Iowegian!!

Click to expand...

I wasn't tryiing to bash Deadwood as I am actually very impressed with his calves.  However, I have yet to find the consistent calving ease sire in the Shorthorn Breed that produces something marketable.  I realize the bull is only 50% of the formula but in actuality the heifer's EPD's which had the 75# Deadwood calf should have had the larger calf.  We own DF Yankee, a full sib THAF/PHAF to Vegas, Sin City and have had over 100 calves so we know more about him than any other Shorthorn bull. I would never propose that he is calving ease but we have taken only one out the side.  However here is what I don't understand.  Last year a cow bred to Yankee had a 68# heifer calf, full term.  The previous year the same cow had a bull calf 110#.  I understand EPD's and statistics but that is a pretty big outlyer on a typical statisical bell curve.  Would be interested if people feel this is prevalent only in the Shorthorn breed as that is the only breed I have dealt with for 20 years or if it is prevalent in all breeds.

chill everyone. I just got a phone call from a very upset dear dear friend of mine. 2 in fact. I apologize if I misspoke but people in glass houses shouldn't throw rocks.

Just all take a deep breath & back to the original post on advice. I know we tend to go off on tangents but sometimes it gets us ALL in trouble.

Red