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Offline sjcattleco

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Re: shorthorn ai sires
« Reply #15 on: July 15, 2007, 07:05:23 PM »
After seeing him in person, I was impressed with WHR (RT?) Spike Junior. He is sired by AR SU LU Golden Spike out of the famed SS Augusta Pride 3127. Spike is a heifer bull used by Cates and WHR. I have used him successfully on heifers but he does downsize a little. I don't think Spike Junior will do much downsizing. That Gold Rush bull would also be a good option; I've seen some good calves out of him.

Short

the shorthorn breed needs to change soo bad its scary and IMO any serious breeder does not see that is holding the breed back!!! I was at our state show and the number of cattle that were too tall, out of balance, long necked, frail and dairy appearing was unbelieveable..Bulls and heifers alike.... And these were show cattle shown by people that have been in the breed for years.....Scares me to death....If I did not like my horns soo much I would own Red Angus cows.   The original post wanting a bull to add frame and calving ease??? there are not 10 cows in North America that need to have frame added to them... I can't stress enough that these cattle need to be wider to add weight and performance NOT TALLER!!!!! Also we can't use the same old stuff for the last 15-20 yrs and expect that to work because it really hasn't so why keep trying? 
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Offline the angus111

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Re: shorthorn ai sires
« Reply #16 on: July 15, 2007, 07:25:10 PM »
sj, the reason i wanted to mate her to a sire to add frame is because i would like to keep her and she is borderline lowliner.if shorties wanted to start lowlines she might be a founding dam.the shorties i see have no problem with volume .i have two that have plenty of guts.come to some jackpots in oklahoma and you will see width.i dont think a 800# at the most should be calving out 100#calves.rusty

Offline Doc

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Re: shorthorn ai sires
« Reply #17 on: July 15, 2007, 07:32:17 PM »
After seeing him in person, I was impressed with WHR (RT?) Spike Junior. He is sired by AR SU LU Golden Spike out of the famed SS Augusta Pride 3127. Spike is a heifer bull used by Cates and WHR. I have used him successfully on heifers but he does downsize a little. I don't think Spike Junior will do much downsizing. That Gold Rush bull would also be a good option; I've seen some good calves out of him.

Short

the shorthorn breed needs to change soo bad its scary and IMO any serious breeder does not see that is holding the breed back!!! I was at our state show and the number of cattle that were too tall, out of balance, long necked, frail and dairy appearing was unbelieveable..Bulls and heifers alike.... And these were show cattle shown by people that have been in the breed for years.....Scares me to death....If I did not like my horns soo much I would own Red Angus cows.   The original post wanting a bull to add frame and calving ease??? there are not 10 cows in North America that need to have frame added to them... I can't stress enough that these cattle need to be wider to add weight and performance NOT TALLER!!!!! Also we can't use the same old stuff for the last 15-20 yrs and expect that to work because it really hasn't so why keep trying? 

  SJ , I don't understand how we can supposedly have soo many problems with the breed but yet you are willing to keep raising them. I definitely don't think that the Red Angus breed is the answer to all of our prayers & the perfect breed. But if that is what floats your boat then I say go for it & change breeds.As far as looking for a bull for a heifer I would be looking for an easy calver & one that will maintain frame score. Get that 1st calf on the ground alive & without hurting the mother. I don't disagree with you that a lot of cattle today need to be wider based(not all of them) but I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you that there aren't any cattle out there needing to have frame added to them. I also don't understand how the same old stuff hasn't worked for the last 15-20 years but yet there is quite a few people that make a living with Shorthorn cattle, so obviously it has worked for them. :)
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Offline DL

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Re: shorthorn ai sires
« Reply #18 on: July 15, 2007, 07:50:52 PM »
Doc - I agreed with your other post an dI pretty much agree with this one here.

Blanket statements about how there aren't 10 Shorthorn cows in all of America (how about Canada) that need to add frame is not really helpful when someone who knows what they want and has aprogram asks for assistance - The A3 - I am waiting on Gozmo to decrease frame and hopefully give me a heifer on my big red Maine cow, so it doesn't look like I can help you, but if you decide to start the Shortline breed I know where we can get some help (lol)
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Offline the angus111

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Re: shorthorn ai sires
« Reply #19 on: July 15, 2007, 08:07:31 PM »
it is kind of funny,what got me interested in shorties other than maternal traits,was they had width ,big square hips and i am going to kill myself for treason,but didnt have that angus defect,noassotosis.angus has changed as well as chis on frame size over the years.rusty (probably impeached)

Offline TJ

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Re: shorthorn ai sires
« Reply #20 on: July 15, 2007, 08:48:07 PM »
Doc - I agreed with your other post an dI pretty much agree with this one here.

Blanket statements about how there aren't 10 Shorthorn cows in all of America (how about Canada) that need to add frame is not really helpful when someone who knows what they want and has aprogram asks for assistance - The A3 - I am waiting on Gozmo to decrease frame and hopefully give me a heifer on my big red Maine cow, so it doesn't look like I can help you, but if you decide to start the Shortline breed I know where we can get some help (lol)


I don't know anything about this link or the association & I have no interest in knowing, but since the subject was raised... 

www.miniatureshorthorn.org




« Last Edit: July 15, 2007, 08:56:47 PM by TJ »
http://www.kylowline.com

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Offline the angus111

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Re: shorthorn ai sires
« Reply #21 on: July 15, 2007, 08:51:01 PM »
tj,thanks my heifer my have a future after all!rusty

Offline Dale

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Re: shorthorn ai sires
« Reply #22 on: July 15, 2007, 08:59:10 PM »
KL Double Duty 6294 is truly a calving ease bull that is not a lowline.  I'm not sure of his frame score, but best guess is a 5.  His growth is adequate and he will leave you functional females.  We have never assisted a Double Duty calf, although one heifer lost her calf at birth in 03.  We still use him and have used 2 of his sons.  His -5.5 BW EPD is for real.

Offline TJ

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Re: shorthorn ai sires
« Reply #23 on: July 15, 2007, 09:01:43 PM »
tj,thanks my heifer my have a future after all!rusty

The person who owns that site mentioned that they were looking to buy "small" shothorns when they posted that link on another message board.  So, if you want to sell your heifer, they might be interested.  
http://www.kylowline.com

Romans 10:9-10... "That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.

Offline the angus111

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Re: shorthorn ai sires
« Reply #24 on: July 15, 2007, 09:05:17 PM »
tj,could it be i finally found my niche in the industry by poor breeding decisions.rusty

Offline DL

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Re: shorthorn ai sires
« Reply #25 on: July 15, 2007, 09:09:17 PM »
The A3 - shall we begin to call you Shortie 3 (or would that be The Shortie 3)??

Actually I was quite amazed that Shorthorn Country actually published the ad looking for minature Shorthorns - perhaps they have no pride. I think you can do just ducky with your heifer - have you thought about a Red Angus sire - get on the Durham Red probram -
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Offline itk

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Re: shorthorn ai sires
« Reply #26 on: July 15, 2007, 09:14:47 PM »
i am intrigued by TM Gus owned by Fishers in KS.


SRU, We are using a full brother to TM Gus' dam on all of our cows this year. He is red and polled and all his calves so far are unassisted. To be honest we were concerned when the calves started coming this year because they were so small but with alittle time we got sold on him and didn't ai a single cow this year we just turned him out. The Kendra cow was a true diamond in the rough and just more proof that you shouldn't peg hole cattle as show or commercial. Kendra has worked for everyone who has used her genetics so I would use TM Gus with great confidence.
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Offline the angus111

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Re: shorthorn ai sires
« Reply #27 on: July 15, 2007, 09:17:38 PM »
oh DL , I GUESS I WILL HAVE TO DROP THE ,IF I CHOOSE TO OR THEY CHOOSE TO IMPEACH ME.BY THE WAY THE LITTLE HEIFER HAS PUT ME IN TOUCH WITH MY SENSITIVE ,HUMANE SIDE.SHE IS THE SWEETEST HEIFER I HAVE,WOULD MAKE A GOOD STARTER PROJECT. RUSTY

Offline OH Breeder

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Re: shorthorn ai sires
« Reply #28 on: July 15, 2007, 09:27:46 PM »
Mr. AA 3
This is my opinon. What i have found is that when I have used older bloodlines on my Double Visions it really seems to balance nicely. The calf pictured in my profile is out of a Sonny x Cherry vision sire and the dam is Byland Cindy Beauty x wakaru. It really has seem to click well. Moderate framed cattle that gain well and finish in that 52" hip height. My females have great rip and depth of body.
I am anxious to try some (JIT probably knows more) Alta Cedar First Blood. I used Gizmo and he really didn't down size any of my calves. They were small at birth and they have been growing like weeds. I am very pleased with my heifer calf out of Gizmo. I would recommend Gizmo ( Elbee probably knows more on that side). There is a new bull coming out of Jungles that I am waiting to see calves on. He is a Levadale Javelin and was successfully bred to heifers.
I think you should look for an outcross for her and stay away from the stuff sires completely. I have one of just about every thing in the pasture, Double Vision, Bad Moon Rising, Quartermaster, Rodeo Drive, Ar Su Lu's and I mix them. I breathed a sigh of relief when i found out they are free to this point.
Nice looking heifer by the way and like the donor as well. I too think that for the first go around shoot for live. There are enough red angus folks on here to tell you who might help on the durham red side as well. My vote is Gizmo. I can send you some great pictures of my female if you like. Her momma was a Direct Hit x mr. Corrector.
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Offline itk

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Re: shorthorn ai sires
« Reply #29 on: July 15, 2007, 09:33:07 PM »
KL Double Duty 6294 is truly a calving ease bull that is not a lowline.  I'm not sure of his frame score, but best guess is a 5.  His growth is adequate and he will leave you functional females.  We have never assisted a Double Duty calf, although one heifer lost her calf at birth in 03.  We still use him and have used 2 of his sons.  His -5.5 BW EPD is for real.

I saw Double Duty about five years ago so my memory is fuzzy but I remember him being a good sized bull (maybe a 6 or 61/2). We flushed our Millvale Rose donor to him and should have calves next spring. I was really impressed with Marty's pen bulls this year. Most of them were double bred Double Duty and were as stout and thick as anything and had unparalleled calving ease potential. Not sure I would call them breed changers but if there were more bulls like them around commercial acceptance for our breed wouldn't be so far fetched.
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