Shorthorn bulls

JCC · Sep 16, 2010

aj said:
JCC set some great parameters. Having at least a 6 year old dam is a great parameter.Calving every year also. How many people even think like this on the board. One example of having a big calf is not always best is as follows. My bro herekeeps setting back calving dates on his 100 cows. His records indicate that his costs have been going down with this move. A smaller calf generally brings more per pound also. Trev has mentioned this. Bro is almost hitting the scenario of selling 450 # calves at about 50$ less than 625$ calves but he has lowered costs around 120$ a calf. So the bumper sticker statement " I get paid by the pound" can be mis leading as far as dollars are concerned. I haven't been to Iowa in almost 30 years so I probably don't have a feel for how things are down out. I know historicallt there was a time where cattle were hauled to the corn belt to feed. Now it is cheaper to haul corn to Kansas or where ever and leave the cattle here or in Northern Texas because of a more moderate enviroment. I don't know what a mainstream bull is either. I think Ohldes Homer bull is fairly much different then the Emblazon or his Legend bull also. I think the most important thing to me is to find a breeder that does set the fertility standards. The calving every year requirement. A breeder that roughs the cows a little. Then look at the survivors and then worry about data. A herd that has all kinds of data is worthless to me if they don't rough their cows a bit. The Shorthorn breed is a maternal breed in my opinion so yearling data on a Shorthorn bull would be 4th as far as a valuable trait is concerned. sjcattle you are right in your philosphy and cattle. When or if the "Me to breeders" jump on your train you should be well positioned.jmo typo...should have been 625# instead of $.

AJ
I completely agree with what you are saying. Added wean weights are not benificial if the cost of those pounds is greater than the return for producing them. I think it has been cussed and discussed before that there is an optimum for your specific environment and I am trying to achieve what I believe is my optimum and what has proven to be able to stay in the herd with our strict protocols and ruthless culling. As well I want some of the convenience traits that allow my family to do this when not at our regular jobs.

Just to clarify the list of traits and information are not in any specific order as well I don't believe that it is 100% complete for me specifically.
Thanks again,
Travis

JCC · Sep 16, 2010

sjcattleco said:
JCC said:

Thanks Aussie for the welcome.

Now please don't confuse me for the lover of big framed cattle, I don't believe there is much use for any cattle over about a 6.5 frame in my environment nor do I think that 5.0 frame cattle are incredibly useful in our environment either.

Click to expand...

the only difference between a frame 5 cow and a frame 6 cow is 3 inches.... if you take a frame 5 cow weighing 1200 and a frame 6 cow weighing 1200 which cow is better? i promise you that 99% will pick the 5.... No one pays for that 3 inches or daylight under their belly!!! That is what is wrong with SHORTHORN right now!!!!!!! if EVERY breeder would strive to take 3 inches of frame off and not lose a pound of weaning wt ( and it can be done)!!!!! the entire breed will improve 100000% ....Fleshing ability and fertility will increase along with feed efficiency and carcass yield! its really a no brainer to me...

SJ

When talking about the shorthorn breed specifically I would have to completely agree with what you have said. I believe that you and I would agree on more things than we would disagree.

I will make this on general comment however, I had a college professor that was asked to buy a fella a pot load of 1250# cows for him out of a sale barn that he was going to be at. The professor did just that with the load averaging 1256#. The fella that he order bought for was really pretty upset at what he got because he truly didn't have any idea what a 1250# cow was. He assumed what he had in the pasture was it when in reality most of his cows were between 1350# and 1500#. A 6 frame 1200# cow and is most likely not going to look like a whole lot and a 5 frame 1200# cow is going to be a chunk obviously with some muscle that is a no brainer of which to choose.

JCC · Sep 16, 2010

trevorgreycattleco said:
JCC ,sue on here will have all the info you want to select a bull. sjcattleco, Leveldale, A@T Cattle, Meadowlane, Sneeds, Kapers, Mark T on here, all good places to go. These folks run their cattle as their enviroment sees fit. I plan on using these places to re build my herd.

Trev

Thanks for the names, Sue and I had a very nice conversation last night and I look forward to being able to have an open dialog with others as I have had with her.

sue · Sep 17, 2010

Alot of great SH breeders are out there just minding there own business and breeding what works. I take alot of crap but enjoy finding those very decidated operations.

Thought of another today. ask me about Colorado.JCC

JTM · Sep 18, 2010

I have really enjoyed reading these posts. I am glad that JCC is looking towards the Shorthorn breed and believe there are some good places to find that bull. I think there are definitely some very good traits that Shorthorns could ad to the commercial market. Marbling and tenderness come to mind. Also, hybrid vigor due to lack of any SH genetics in commercial crossbreds. Good discussion!

JCC · Sep 20, 2010

JTM

I posted because I have gotten tired of getting the same opinion from almost every Shorthorn breeder that I have talked to about cattle that will perform on pasture without supplementation, calve every 365 days and wean a minimum of 50% their body weight in calf without a creep feeder. Just go to there sale and they have the answer. I thought instead of getting the same answers within my state I would look nationally. Most of the breeders that you see published in the shorthorn country are caught up in the showring to much to worry about what is happening with the commercial guy. I am just searching out those that think a little more like myself but are the mostly silent. I believe that I may have been shown the direction of some breeders that may think more closely to me than I have found in the past. I hope that this has also been educational to some of the breeders that are on here that there is a huge disconnect from the shorthorn world from what is being seen in the Shorthorn Country. I hope breeders have come to realize that people like me have no idea they are out there if you aren't telling anyone.

Okotoks · Sep 20, 2010

JCC said:
JTM

I posted because I have gotten tired of getting the same opinion from almost every Shorthorn breeder that I have talked to about cattle that will perform on pasture without supplementation, calve every 365 days and wean a minimum of 50% their body weight in calf without a creep feeder. Just go to there sale and they have the answer. I thought instead of getting the same answers within my state I would look nationally. Most of the breeders that you see published in the shorthorn country are caught up in the showring to much to worry about what is happening with the commercial guy. I am just searching out those that think a little more like myself but are the mostly silent. I believe that I may have been shown the direction of some breeders that may think more closely to me than I have found in the past. I hope that this has also been educational to some of the breeders that are on here that there is a huge disconnect from the shorthorn world from what is being seen in the Shorthorn Country. I hope breeders have come to realize that people like me have no idea they are out there if you aren't telling anyone.

Don't know if this herd came up in your discussions but maybe the type of program you are looking for. Posted this earlier on Shorty Heifer bulls thread.
Was looking at Loving Farms website. http://www.lovingfarms.com/
Looks like lots of emphasis on calving ease there as well as other important traits.

turning grass into beef · Sep 20, 2010

Those of us that are more commercial minded are out there, but you may have to search us out. We usually do not do a good job of advertising (that's our fault) so you won't find us very often in the shorthorn country. Also, if our target customer is the commercial rancher within a 200 mile radius, then a national magazine may not be the best place to advertise (when we do advertise). All this being said, there is no better advertising than word of mouth. That takes time, but pays off in the long run (which is what we are here for). There are probably ways to get our name more well known in a shorter period of time, but building a reputation takes time and the results are more long lasting than just advertising that we have the latest show winner (which we don't).
Whatever breed of cattle you choose to use, you will find like minded individuals to purchase breeding stock from. It may just take some work. We have all heard the saying that goes something like "nothing worthwhile ever comes easy". This may apply to finding shorthorn breeders that have the same breeding philosophy as you have.

mark tenenbaum · Sep 20, 2010

Even though this is late in the deal-and probably wont get read-the Shorthorns Ive had over the last 20 years have mostly run on Kanas grass and hay in sometimes extreme conditions-with no supplements other than minerals at all. That is why commercial breeders bought every thing we had at the bottom of Deertrails Sales,bulls and otherwise. The few I have left ran on grass in a no nonsense commercial herd in Salina. My cattle allways had to run and compete with blacks and crossbreds,and werent allways gentle or friendly.They all held thier own,however hard it was after show season.None of the cattle out that way look great in the field black,hereford,x-bred,shorthorn or ??? -but seem to raise these awesome calves O0

JTM · Sep 20, 2010

JCC said:
JTM

I posted because I have gotten tired of getting the same opinion from almost every Shorthorn breeder that I have talked to about cattle that will perform on pasture without supplementation, calve every 365 days and wean a minimum of 50% their body weight in calf without a creep feeder. Just go to there sale and they have the answer. I thought instead of getting the same answers within my state I would look nationally. Most of the breeders that you see published in the shorthorn country are caught up in the showring to much to worry about what is happening with the commercial guy. I am just searching out those that think a little more like myself but are the mostly silent. I believe that I may have been shown the direction of some breeders that may think more closely to me than I have found in the past. I hope that this has also been educational to some of the breeders that are on here that there is a huge disconnect from the shorthorn world from what is being seen in the Shorthorn Country. I hope breeders have come to realize that people like me have no idea they are out there if you aren't telling anyone.

JCC, I understand where you are coming from. There is definitely a problem in the Shorthorn breed when it comes to commercial acceptance, etc. I have heard from a number of people as we were getting started that you can't have the best of both worlds. Performance and show worthy. I try to do both anyway. I keep a lot of records on my Shorthorns but I can't say that I am commercial driven when it comes to that herd. I am starting a commercial cow/calf and will use Shorthorn bulls in that herd because I have seen how well they cross. One of the things I think you will find with a lot of purebred Shorthorn breeders who are not keeping all of the numbers and are selling junior projects like us, is that a lot of us are still cattlemen and will cull cows with bad teet structure, low fertility, or low performing calves. Also, we keep all our cows on pasture 8 months out of the year and then they only get hay. They must perform to keep up. I also realize that there are probably a lot of breeders who don't do this enough but all I can speak of is my program.

aj · Sep 20, 2010

Interesting point on advertising deal. Why advertise in the Shorthorn country unless you are going after the country clubbers. I think Durham red breeders should advertise in the Red Angus journal. You are way more apt to get responses. They have pretty decent prices on like the 10 month ad option. They actually have articles on the beef industry in that mag.

trevorgreycattleco · Sep 21, 2010

I think there is a place for the clubbies in Shorthorn Country. I like to look at the pictures for sure. I think if commercial people started to advertise more than they do now it would change everything. Squeaky wheel gets the grease. I think there is room for both segments and let folks decide what they want to breed. When only the show cattle advertise it makes it awful hard for a angus man to seriously consider shorties. JMO

justintime · Sep 21, 2010

I try to advertise fairly regularly in Shorthorn Country, and my cattle are far from being classed as clubby. I am always pleased with the responses I get from my advertising there or I would not be doing it. I have had a pile of catalog requests from our sale ad, and over the year, I get dozens of embryo and breeding stock inquiries. I firmly believe visibility of your breeding program is a key roll in any success you have in this business.

I have never heard of an ad being turned down in this magazine or any other. In our Canadian magazine, I have never refused any ads from anyone, however, I have asked a few breeders to get some better pictures because if they ran the ones they sent in, they would be totally wasting their money.

Advertising is hard to get a handle on amount of success it brings. A buyer may turn up at your door many years after your ad was placed. Three years ago, I sold two bulls to a commercial man and I asked him if he had seen our ad in a local farm paper. He said he had not, but he had seen an ad we had run in an old Shorthorn magazine. He had the magazine in the truck and when he showed me, I was amazed. The issue was from 1979, almost 30 years previously. He said he liked the bulls pictured and he wanted bulls like them, so he had come to look.

Shorthorn bulls

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