Quantcast Shorthorn Question

Sponsors







Author Topic: Shorthorn Question  (Read 23679 times)

Offline AG TEACHER

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 21
  • Karma 0
    • View Profile
Shorthorn Question
« on: September 02, 2010, 01:54:00 PM »
I am wondering... Seems like there is so much talk ... discussion... opinion.....and controversy about the shorthorn breed on here which I am glad to see.. My question is.... Is the popularity of the breed going to increase and continue to grow and propel it back to  being number 3-4 instead of #10.... whats the prognosis for the future...15-20 yrs out...

Offline Shorthorns4us

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 302
  • Karma 15
    • View Profile
    • Ford Family Shorthorns
Re: Shorthorn Question
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2010, 02:43:26 PM »

Well, I would really like to see demand for the shorthorn and shorthorn cross come back to the feedyards.  My grandpa said you always have to have a little shorthorn in your mama cow to help get great fat calves.  And it doesn't hurt that Shorthorns are naturally great mamas.
I hope that we (the breed) can really get our foot back in the door at the packing plant and show that shorthorns can yield, grade and cut.
Don't get me wrong there are lots of shorthorns in feedyards, but we just don't have the volume of fat calves to compare to the black hides.
JMO

Offline jaimiediamond

  • County Champion Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 1013
  • Karma 209
  • Diamond Brittney Maid 2B
    • View Profile
    • Diamond Shorthorns
Re: Shorthorn Question
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2010, 03:39:07 PM »
I am wondering... Seems like there is so much talk ... discussion... opinion.....and controversy about the shorthorn breed on here which I am glad to see.. My question is.... Is the popularity of the breed going to increase and continue to grow and propel it back to  being number 3-4 instead of #10.... whats the prognosis for the future...15-20 yrs out...

I feel that the Shorthorn breed is on the rise again, you see more and more in the pastures of the commercial breeders, and they definitely are taking over in the show rings.  In our area a lot of commercial breeders are constantly on a look out for a good shorthorn to put over their Simmental, Charolais, and Angus based cow herds to produce top grading steers and excellent replacement heifers. 

Offline Okotoks

  • State Champion Poster
  • ******
  • Posts: 3019
  • Karma 121
  • Diamond Belvedere 29B
    • View Profile
    • Diamond Shorthorns
Re: Shorthorn Question
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2010, 09:10:39 PM »
I am wondering... Seems like there is so much talk ... discussion... opinion.....and controversy about the shorthorn breed on here which I am glad to see.. My question is.... Is the popularity of the breed going to increase and continue to grow and propel it back to  being number 3-4 instead of #10.... whats the prognosis for the future...15-20 yrs out...
I think the breed has a great future. Shorthorn, shorthorn cross cows are great mother cows and don't take second to any combo. As well the best kept secret in the cattle industry is their feed conversion and carcaass traits. If breeders focus on functional good looking cattle the popularity of the breed will increase and grow.

Offline Show Heifer

  • County Champion Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 2221
  • Karma 179
  • Sometimes its just worth the risk
    • View Profile
Re: Shorthorn Question
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2010, 06:59:11 AM »
Not around here. They are dead.
Big birth weights, unacceptable colored calves, too much hair for summer, bad PR from breeders, and the fact they are known for (and themselves publicize) that they are the "show ring breed") will prevent any commercial producer from even considering them.  I mean, how do they justify buying a shortie when everyone at the coffee shop will laugh at them for buying a "pretty fuzzy cow/bull"?  Yea, not going to happen.

You had tthe right not display your lack of command of the english language. Too bad you have chosen not to. - Brit, senior student

Offline aj

  • National Champion Poster
  • **********
  • Posts: 6240
  • Karma 175
    • View Profile
Re: Shorthorn Question
« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2010, 07:47:23 AM »
I think one thing to consider is the following. This is a great forum with alot of of people logging on. However I think that that disscussing a breeds weakness and strengths pretty much stays here(as far as the commercial market is concerned. Maybe one half of one half of one half of a % of commercial producers visit this sight. The color deal is the biggest thing holding the breed back. It was decided that the breed wasn't going to turn itself black. The black hided myth deal has really caught on. So for better or worse the breed is one of the few non-black breeds yet. It is a great breed. People involved with it know how amazing the breed is. I think if the black hided idiotcy was thrown out the breed would turn selection back to the commercial industry. But since we have been shut out because of the color horse poop people have concentrated on the show ring. Logically that is where the money is.
People can't believe we have such a big moon for such a small town.

Offline Okotoks

  • State Champion Poster
  • ******
  • Posts: 3019
  • Karma 121
  • Diamond Belvedere 29B
    • View Profile
    • Diamond Shorthorns
Re: Shorthorn Question
« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2010, 03:37:34 PM »
Not around here. They are dead.
Big birth weights, unacceptable colored calves, too much hair for summer, bad PR from breeders, and the fact they are known for (and themselves publicize) that they are the "show ring breed") will prevent any commercial producer from even considering them.  I mean, how do they justify buying a shortie when everyone at the coffee shop will laugh at them for buying a "pretty fuzzy cow/bull"?  Yea, not going to happen.

In the eighties in our area black hided calves were discounted.The people who put them at the top weren't too worried about coffee shop laughter! We have been able to be right at the top of the market with our shorthorn steer calves the last few years. There are shorthorn genetics out there that will compete in the pasture,feedlot and on the rail. It won't be sales to Show Heifer that put us back on top. When it comes to breeding good cattle in any breed "coffee shop laughter" never entered into a true cattle breeders decisions!
« Last Edit: September 03, 2010, 04:13:21 PM by Okotoks »

Offline aj

  • National Champion Poster
  • **********
  • Posts: 6240
  • Karma 175
    • View Profile
Re: Shorthorn Question
« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2010, 05:55:09 PM »
Okytoks. She has a point. Here in the midwest it is crucial to be black.
People can't believe we have such a big moon for such a small town.

Offline Okotoks

  • State Champion Poster
  • ******
  • Posts: 3019
  • Karma 121
  • Diamond Belvedere 29B
    • View Profile
    • Diamond Shorthorns
Re: Shorthorn Question
« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2010, 06:27:42 PM »
Okotoks. She has a point. Here in the midwest it is crucial to be black.
AJ I'm not disputing that due to excellent marketing of a good product the black cattle are bringing a premium.
I'm just saying we have the genetics in the shorthorn breed if we do the selection, the marketing and the promotion that can move us back to a commercially viable option. We are lucky in Canada that our grading system pays a premium for marbling which is a Shorthorn strong point. There have also been trials where pens of shorthorn steers have out gained other breed pens and with better feed convertion. Her point is well taken in that we have to start propogating Shorthorn genetics that work for the commercial producer. I'm confident there are enough Shorthorn breeders focusing on commercially viable genetics that the breed will gain a significant amount of market share in the future.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2010, 06:47:17 PM by Okotoks »

Offline E6 Durhams

  • County Champion Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 2047
  • Karma 175
  • Brock Eagon 740-815-4145
    • View Profile
Re: Shorthorn Question
« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2010, 07:43:11 PM »
Black cattle still bring a premium here in Ohio. Commercial people will pay attention to shorthorns when we can show them how shorthorns will help them increase their profits. When the biggest breeder promotes cattle that IMO are not accurately recorded and are pushed hard on high input, it gives lots of people  a bad expierence with shorthorn. The fact is shorthorns are extremely tender and when crossed on a angus based cow herd will add more premiums for carcass quality in the feed lot. The problem still is and has been, the wrong genetics in the wrong place. If you are using the hot lines and are making them work on low input operations, then good for you, but you are in the minority and I would applaud your skills as a breeder. We need to push and prove some breeders that are "on the fringe" of being big. Give Captain Obvious, RS DV 034, 7026, American Muscle, Elbee bulls, Meadowlane, Koulee's, Leveldale, Kaper's, Roy Lovas, Loving's, A@T, Hubs, Lauer's, the Diamond bull on here recently and those folks. The base is there, if you are serious, then we need to propigate those genetics on a large scale and show people where the profit is. I feel sorry for people like show heifer and countless others who get crapped on by the big dogs year after year. I guess it's time for me to trade my baseball cap for a cowboy hat and call myself a consultant or sale manager cause the ones that are doing it are as useless as hen poo on a pump handle. Sorry JMO.

Challenge your cattle and see who the best is. I am trying to.
Cleveland Browns...... super bowl champs 2019. Heard it here first. And charcuterie is the next hot food trend with the hipsters.

Offline commercialfarmer

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 196
  • Karma 45
    • View Profile
Re: Shorthorn Question
« Reply #10 on: September 04, 2010, 03:22:20 AM »
I haven't got the "pudding" yet to prove that Shorthorns crosses are one of the best kept secrets, but I'm working on it.  If you look around, especially Australia and even evidence on this site, a lot of Murray Grey cattle and Shorthorn based cattle have some of the best carcasses.  That is where my interest started.

The fact that the breed is overall doing well in the show ring is likely a good thing (by no means saying all these cattle will be good production cattle).  Always at some level, producers buy cattle based on appeal.  Heck, the only thing we know for sure is that they either look good or they don't.  Having all this "pretty" bred in will help- another reason I am attracted to them.  Myself, I have plans to get some crosses using genetics from one of the Diamond bull's (for cows) and Captain Obvious (for heifers) and hopefully get ahead of the industry- and an added benefit, the owners aren't afraid to talk to you.  I must admit however, until the spotted and red cattle are allowed to eat at the bunk also, I am trying to keep them mostly black which is not hard.

If the breed wanted to get serious about production cattle, I think that starting a source verified program (if there is one, I am not aware of it?) would be first.  This being the information age it is we live in, get as much carcass, feed efficiency, and gain data as possible and get it online, and in brochures.  Target the guys that will stand to benefit the most from it.  Marketing is what sells in any industry.  Then a good product brings repeat business.  The most impressionable lesson I learned when marketing a new business I helped start was this...  McDonald's doesn't make the best hamburger, they are just the best at advertising.  They don't spend even seconds discussing how to make there "cardboard" cheeseburgers better today than it was last year or even 10 years ago.  But they spend a lot of time and millions on making sure you and I see their brand at least once a day. 

I just ask that you wait until I get my semen bought before you start the craze... 

Offline Show Heifer

  • County Champion Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 2221
  • Karma 179
  • Sometimes its just worth the risk
    • View Profile
Re: Shorthorn Question
« Reply #11 on: September 04, 2010, 08:18:47 AM »

In the eighties in our area black hided calves were discounted.The people who put them at the top weren't too worried about coffee shop laughter! We have been able to be right at the top of the market with our shorthorn steer calves the last few years. There are shorthorn genetics out there that will compete in the pasture,feedlot and on the rail. It won't be sales to Show Heifer that put us back on top. When it comes to breeding good cattle in any breed "coffee shop laughter" never entered into a true cattle breeders decisions!

[/quote]

My coffe shop comment was a bit "tongue in cheek" . Sorry you missed that... but my point still stands. The question of the post was will shorthorns increase or decrease in popularity. My response was decrease. Let me explain in detail.
The breeders here in the midwest are show herds. They have too much hair, not enough milk, no fertility, too much purple hype to make it into the commercial market. Plus the breeders (in general, not all) are not who the commercial guy is going to deal with. Too many crooks, not enough honesty. I was flat screwed by 3 shorty breeders and I will NEVER go back, nor will I support the breed. (You HAVE heard the saying "One happy customer will come back. One unhappy customer will cost you 20 prospect customers"  haven't you?  Well, I am that ONE.)
The breeders around here are not WANTING to sell to the commercial producer. They want to win a show. They want to beat sullivans. They want to grow hair. They will pull calves. They will bottle feed calves. They will brag about 1500 pound heifers. They will admire ton cows. They take it as an insult to "have to sell" to the commercial producer.
The red angus X Char cross is huge around here and will run with the blacks, so it has a bit to do with color, but has more to do with the attitude of the breed. Purple doesn't equal green in the commericial producers mind.
You had tthe right not display your lack of command of the english language. Too bad you have chosen not to. - Brit, senior student

Offline justintime

  • State Champion Poster
  • ******
  • Posts: 4330
  • Karma 303
  • HC Free Spirit 6Y
    • View Profile
    • Horseshoe Creek Farms Ltd.
Re: Shorthorn Question
« Reply #12 on: September 04, 2010, 08:45:01 AM »
Here in Canada, as well as almost every country except the US, Shorthorn popularity in the commercial sector, is growing by leaps and bounds. The Shorthorn breed has regained some lost ground in Australia, where they were once one of the most popular breeds. Shorthorn sales are again strong with the commercial producer being the major player at these. The Shorthorn breed was put on the endangered breed list in Britain, during the 90s and they have made a resurgence and are now one of the hottest breeds with amazing breed growth. The prices being paid by commercial cattlemen in Britain are amazing. More Shorthorn semen has been sold into Brazil in the past year than in all the years previously. Here in Canada, particularly Western Canada, I am positive that Shorthorns are being looked at by commercial producers as a legitimate breed choice. I agree with Okotoks and jaimiediamond that the breed has great potential here. The road to gaining breed popularity is a very hard one, but it is worth it when you see increased sales. We have always had pretty good female sales, but we are now seeing better bull sales. I maintain that any breed needs to develop commercial bull sales if they are going to see breed popularity grow. We are seeing more and more Shorthorn bulls going into commercial herds, and in my herd, my Shorthorn cross calves from my commercial herd, always sell extremely well. I am not seeing any discounts even on roans, in fact, if the right buyers are at the sales, they bring a premium. I don't think a person could produce enough Shorthorn cross females to fill the demand. I do not know why more people are not getting into the production of Shorthorn F1 females. If I was a younger man, I would be chasing this one for sure.

In the US, it is a totally different deal, and the Shorthorn breed will continue to have a place, but the black hided deal has created a very artifiical marketplace. I get sick every time I think of the feeders and packers who are literally stealing these cattle from producers, and making huge profits on them once they are harvested. Okotoks mentioned that in the 80s, black cattle were discounted in our markets. That is very correct. My dad always liked Angus cows, and I remember him often saying, that he would love to have 20 good Angus cows, but he did not know what you would do with the calves. I am old enough to remember going to the major bull sales, and feeling so sorry for the Angus breeders who passed bull after bull through their sales.
The American Angus Association should get some major marketing awards for designing a market place that ensures the popularity of their breed. They must sit in their offices and roll with laughter sometimes, when they look back and see how easy it was to make this happen. I give them all the credit, and ALL other breeds have to take the responsibility of sitting back and allowing this to happen.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2010, 11:32:35 AM by justintime »
Experience is what you get when you don't have it when you need it.

Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and bad breath!
Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity
If love is blind... why is lingerie so popular?
The only thing worse than an idiot ... is an educated idiot!

Offline Okotoks

  • State Champion Poster
  • ******
  • Posts: 3019
  • Karma 121
  • Diamond Belvedere 29B
    • View Profile
    • Diamond Shorthorns
Re: Shorthorn Question
« Reply #13 on: September 04, 2010, 12:43:50 PM »

In the eighties in our area black hided calves were discounted.The people who put them at the top weren't too worried about coffee shop laughter! We have been able to be right at the top of the market with our shorthorn steer calves the last few years. There are shorthorn genetics out there that will compete in the pasture,feedlot and on the rail. It won't be sales to Show Heifer that put us back on top. When it comes to breeding good cattle in any breed "coffee shop laughter" never entered into a true cattle breeders decisions!


My coffe shop comment was a bit "tongue in cheek" . Sorry you missed that... but my point still stands. The question of the post was will shorthorns increase or decrease in popularity. My response was decrease. Let me explain in detail.
The breeders here in the midwest are show herds. They have too much hair, not enough milk, no fertility, too much purple hype to make it into the commercial market. Plus the breeders (in general, not all) are not who the commercial guy is going to deal with. Too many crooks, not enough honesty. I was flat screwed by 3 shorty breeders and I will NEVER go back, nor will I support the breed. (You HAVE heard the saying "One happy customer will come back. One unhappy customer will cost you 20 prospect customers"  haven't you?  Well, I am that ONE.)
The breeders around here are not WANTING to sell to the commercial producer. They want to win a show. They want to beat sullivans. They want to grow hair. They will pull calves. They will bottle feed calves. They will brag about 1500 pound heifers. They will admire ton cows. They take it as an insult to "have to sell" to the commercial producer.
The red angus X Char cross is huge around here and will run with the blacks, so it has a bit to do with color, but has more to do with the attitude of the breed. Purple doesn't equal green in the commericial producers mind.

[/quote]
I understand where you are coming from as I would be the same if the seller wasnt honest. That type of person doesnt even qualify as a cattle breeder in my book. They dont lose any sleep over their dishonesty either, they just probably dream about their bank balance as they dont have any conscience.
Reporting improper birth weights, birth dates or hiding problems will hurt all breeders and a lot of buyers.
Its the same with people propagating genetic defects to just win in the show ring. What about the thousands of heifers that enter the commercial market and spread these recessive defects? Now that there is genetic testing its mind boggling that people are actually trying to find carriers to use rather than breed away from the problem. I know of breeders that bought bulls and tested them only to find they were carriers and the original carrier is back in the 9th generation. There will be some commercial herds that lose up to 25% of their calf crop in the future if people dont start acting responsibly.
The show ring is supposed to be where we show our breeding programs. Unfortunately it has become about breeding to show for a lot of producers. Until that disconnect is fixed a lot more people will get hurt.

Offline sue

  • County Champion Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 1906
  • Karma 90
    • View Profile
    • www.lakesidecattle.com
Re: Shorthorn Question
« Reply #14 on: September 06, 2010, 02:33:19 PM »
I am wondering... Seems like there is so much talk ... discussion... opinion.....and controversy about the shorthorn breed on here which I am glad to see.. My question is.... Is the popularity of the breed going to increase and continue to grow and propel it back to  being number 3-4 instead of #10.... whats the prognosis for the future...15-20 yrs out...
SH crosses...
Registered Red Angus x Shorthorn Composite Cattle. www.lakesidecattle.com

 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
8 Replies
3711 Views
Last post February 07, 2007, 09:39:40 PM
by shortdawg
31 Replies
6969 Views
Last post October 06, 2009, 07:29:38 PM
by feeder duck
7 Replies
2455 Views
Last post May 02, 2010, 12:10:53 PM
by Telos
12 Replies
4894 Views
Last post October 06, 2010, 04:32:13 PM
by Shorthorn Girl
11 Replies
2052 Views
Last post March 05, 2018, 08:32:19 PM
by mark tenenbaum

Powered by EzPortal