simsolution bull

I have an angus based cow that i would like to breed for her second calve. I would like something that has clubby style but has the thickness of a simangus. I need to clean up her front. I was thinking as my choices from 1 to 3:

1. Hara's Real Steel
2. KLS Hlafblood
3. JF Foundation

I would like to stouten up my cow and i want something that will keep up the depth and large top. I was concerned because JF foundation's EPDs said his Ribeye area is -.1

If anyones heard of these bulls or has any other sim solutions that they would reccomend please feel free. Thanks!!

Hmm,  id like to second the info wanted on the reel steel bull,  he looks good. Thats a new name to me !

ALTSIMMY 79 said:

Hmm,  id like to second the info wanted on the reel steel bull,  he looks good. Thats a new name to me !

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I agree, whats the link to his pedigree and epds? thanx

First point would be that the Simmi carcass EPD's are useless.
Second is why do you think that SimAngus cattle are thick and big topped? (as a generalization)
Third why do you want to use a half angus and not a purebred on an angus cow?

Gargan said:

ALTSIMMY 79 said:

Hmm,  id like to second the info wanted on the reel steel bull,  he looks good. Thats a new name to me !

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I agree, whats the link to his pedigree and epds? thanx

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Type in Real Steel and he's easy to find. It's a short list... A Steel Force son, of course...

GONEWEST said:

First point would be that the Simmi carcass EPD's are useless.
Second is why do you think that SimAngus cattle are thick and big topped? (as a generalization)
Third why do you want to use a half angus and not a purebred on an angus cow?

Click to expand...

First off, to answer your third question, my heifer is not purebred (obviously). She has a bit of maine and chi in her.
Secondly, the EPDs would have to be based off of SOMETHING
and lastly, where did you get the idea that i think simangus cattle are thick topped? i'm pretty sure i did not say that. and also any good bull should be thick topped, it has nothing to do with breed. I hope that answers some of your "questions"

Hara's Real Steel is a Steel Force X Ali x Hairietta 1/2 blood Simmental. Swansons in Iowa own him now. Call them for first calf reports. They just had a very successful (over $10,000 ave.) bred female/cow sale with many of those females covered naturally by Real Steel.  Cattle Visions carries Real Steel semen.

GONEWEST said:

First point would be that the Simmi carcass EPD's are useless.
Second is why do you think that SimAngus cattle are thick and big topped? (as a generalization)
Third why do you want to use a half angus and not a purebred on an angus cow?

Click to expand...

I'll bite... And I'll disagree with you on the notion that ASA's carcass EPDs are "useless". Keep in mind the accuracies...I don't think anybody claims to guarantee EPDs of any breed. Simmental generally may not be as stout as some of the terminal breeds or crossbreds out there, but they do offer some thickness in addition to other benefits. And it's a very complimentary breed to cross on Angus or Angus based cows. I will agree on the final point...I'm curious about the search for a SimAngus bull compared to a purebred, but if you're looking for a bull that might have more than just Simmental & Angus (as the post suggests by using the term "SimSolution" then that makes sense. I think a shot of Maine or some other muscle breed might compliment the cross even more.

I like the looks of the Real Steel bull...he's more clubby to me than either of the other bulls. Have you thought about Jades Dreamworks, the baldy Secret Weapon, or the Upgrade son, American Pride?

My two cents is they want what they want! I would see nothing wrong with using a percentage bull in this case. I can sure say that my percentage simmys flat out perform better than my purebreds,  hands down!  I really like the look of that Real Steel bull, id suggest looking more into that one.

I have a similar type situation, except purebred angus...I'm going with Kerry Lawrences bull Heads Up.  Looks like he should clean up the front third.

HEADS UP

I'll add to one of Gonewest's points.  You have a cow that's not purebred.  If you use a purebred bull, you'll have a halfblood sim.  If you use a percentage bull, you have an animal that won't be half sim, may be half angus, may not be half of any breed.  If you're shooting for a steer, use a clubby bull.  If you're shooting for a heifer to make a cow out of, use a purebred with some "look" to him.  Without knowing your long-term goal for this mating, phenotype seems to be the most important goal.  If you're going to have an animal that has 4 breeds in it, I don't think EPD's are going to be real accurate or valuable.  Don't limit your options, look around.

dknupp said:

I have a similar type situation, except purebred angus...I'm going with Kerry Lawrences bull Heads Up.  Looks like he should clean up the front third.

HEADS UP

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He has some semen selling on Breeders World tomorrow. He had a son sale in the Denver sale that went for a bit of money, half interest.

grandchamp58 said:

GONEWEST said:

First point would be that the Simmi carcass EPD's are useless.
Second is why do you think that SimAngus cattle are thick and big topped? (as a generalization)
Third why do you want to use a half angus and not a purebred on an angus cow?

Click to expand...

First off, to answer your third question, my heifer is not purebred (obviously). She has a bit of maine and chi in her.
Secondly, the EPDs would have to be based off of SOMETHING
and lastly, where did you get the idea that i think simangus cattle are thick topped? i'm pretty sure i did not say that. and also any good bull should be thick topped, it has nothing to do with breed. I hope that answers some of your "questions"

Click to expand...

Uhmmmm....... this is where I got it.

I would like to stouten up my cow and i want something that will keep up the depth and large top.

If you think the Carcass EPD's must be based off of SOMETHING, then you are not familiar with the ASA, the man in charge of the EPD's there or their EPD model. Unless you call "something" fantasy's in this guys head.
Still wonder why you wouldn't want a purebred bull instead of a half blood to keep from further mongrelizing your cow. Just wanted to help. Breed her to a buffalo if you want.

leanbeef said:

GONEWEST said:

First point would be that the Simmi carcass EPD's are useless.
Second is why do you think that SimAngus cattle are thick and big topped? (as a generalization)
Third why do you want to use a half angus and not a purebred on an angus cow?

Click to expand...

I'll bite... And I'll disagree with you on the notion that ASA's carcass EPDs are "useless". Keep in mind the accuracies...I don't think anybody claims to guarantee EPDs of any breed. Simmental generally may not be as stout as some of the terminal breeds or crossbreds out there, but they do offer some thickness in addition to other benefits. And it's a very complimentary breed to cross on Angus or Angus based cows. I will agree on the final point...I'm curious about the search for a SimAngus bull compared to a purebred, but if you're looking for a bull that might have more than just Simmental & Angus (as the post suggests by using the term "SimSolution" then that makes sense. I think a shot of Maine or some other muscle breed might compliment the cross even more.

I like the looks of the Real Steel bull...he's more clubby to me than either of the other bulls. Have you thought about Jades Dreamworks, the baldy Secret Weapon, or the Upgrade son, American Pride?

Click to expand...

If I breed my cow to the top REA bull in the breed instead of allowing the neighbors average Simmental bull to get into the pasture and breed cows I will see an improvement of 1/4 of 1 square inch in REA. Now perhaps you and I have a different definition for useless. But to me that is useless. When the guy in charge of the EPD models has to take two pages in the Register to explain why the milk EPD's are so inaccurate on Simmental cows, I'd call that useless information. When he continually argues that we shouldn't worry about anything but API because that calculation will take care of all the inaccuracies associated with the other EPD's, then I'd call them useless information. When the THE program is so complicated for members that are registering large numbers of cattle with diverse operations of different breeds, ET calves, etc, that they just write stuff down to get through it, I'd call that useless information. But what I REALLY was referring to was the carcass EPD's. There is not enough data on enough bulls for those numbers to be accurate no matter the accuracy figures associated with those particular EPD's. Again, perhaps your definition of useless is different and that is fine by me.

GONEWEST said:

grandchamp58 said:

GONEWEST said:

First point would be that the Simmi carcass EPD's are useless.
Second is why do you think that SimAngus cattle are thick and big topped? (as a generalization)
Third why do you want to use a half angus and not a purebred on an angus cow?

Click to expand...

First off, to answer your third question, my heifer is not purebred (obviously). She has a bit of maine and chi in her.
Secondly, the EPDs would have to be based off of SOMETHING
and lastly, where did you get the idea that i think simangus cattle are thick topped? i'm pretty sure i did not say that. and also any good bull should be thick topped, it has nothing to do with breed. I hope that answers some of your "questions"

Click to expand...

Uhmmmm....... this is where I got it.

I would like to stouten up my cow and i want something that will keep up the depth and large top.

If you think the Carcass EPD's must be based off of SOMETHING, then you are not familiar with the ASA, the man in charge of the EPD's there or their EPD model. Unless you call "something" fantasy's in this guys head.
Still wonder why you wouldn't want a purebred bull instead of a half blood to keep from further mongrelizing your cow. Just wanted to help. Breed her to a buffalo if you want.

Click to expand...

First off, crossing something isn't "mongrelizing" it. I am not familiar with the ASA because i do not want any purebred or registered simmentals. If you read my description, i am looking for something more clubby which is quite obvious from the requests. Just by breeding this heifer to even a purebred simmental it would be a 4 way cross calf. And i think you would have a rough time convincing people that a good simmental shouldnt have a thick top. And i'm sure EPDS arent based off of "fantasies." That's quite insulting to the people whom create the EPDs and its also pretty ridiculous that you would say something like that on a public forum.

Well, I (for one) happen to like the direction you're going and I think you'll like the results.

Not to ever agree w/ Gonewest, but crossing 'something' in the manner you've suggested is mongrelizing.  You're heifer is already comprised of Angus, Simmental, Maine, and chi- and at UNSTABALIZED percentages at that.  You now want to breed her to another bull whose genetics are unstable as well.  The resulting calf- by definition- would be a mongrel.  Anytime you breed a mongrel to a mongrel you have thrown all predictability out the window.  The fact that shes made up of 4 breeds does not make her a mongrel.  The fact that these %'s aren't stabalized does.

Stick to your plan grandchamp if you are not to concerned with accurate epd's. These crossed up "mongrels" can be home runs every now and then phenotypically. I really like the real steel bull. Another to consider is Chinook. He is a 1/2 blood simmi out of Chopper and a Friction cow.  Good luck to ya.

I agree Gargan ! Crossbreds are mongrels now to some i guess , WOW thats a load of crap!!! To each their own,  everyone has different opinions and i believe the original poster wanted some bull suggestions not criticism of their breeding ideas!!!

-XBAR- said:

Not to ever agree w/ Gonewest, but crossing 'something' in the manner you've suggested is mongrelizing.  You're heifer is already comprised of Angus, Simmental, Maine, and chi- and at UNSTABALIZED percentages at that.  You now want to breed her to another bull whose genetics are unstable as well.  The resulting calf- by definition- would be a mongrel.  Anytime you breed a mongrel to a mongrel you have thrown all predictability out the window.  The fact that shes made up of 4 breeds does not make her a mongrel.  The fact that these %'s aren't stabalized does.

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What?... What the hell are "stabilized percentages"? LOL