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Offline SWMO

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Slick Shearing vs haired shows
« on: July 28, 2009, 11:49:51 AM »
OK I am going to fan the flames somewhat but I truly want to know what others opinions are on this subject.

I love the haired shows.  The steers are really very pretty when they are all fit up and I know how much time and effort goes into preparing an animal for a fit show.

 But my concern is this.  Has the time come that the playing field in the jr steers shows is not level ( especially for the summer shows that we have here in Missouri).  It seems like a lot of the very competitive steers are now not being kept on or even near the owners farm.  Many of these steers are being kept in cool rooms far removed from the area in which the steer ultimately is shown.    ( I know I know alot of you have cool rooms on your farm.)  But most of us know that many of these steers are farmed out to a "professional".

I am playing devils advocate here somewhat.  My concern is this.  For those families that do not have the resources in either the time or the money for a cool room but have very good skills in finishing a steer are they being disadvantaged.  Cool rooms have to have someone there monitoring them 24/7.  So many people work off the farm in addition to their farm that they do not have the time for a cool room.  Hence you do your best to keep adequate hair on a calf by rinsing and genetics or you send the animal (if you want to spend that kind of money) off to someone that has the cool room thus taking away the whole purpose of a jr project which is learning from managing your project.

I do not have a dog is this fight so do not slam me.  I just want to hear others peoples opinions on this subject.

Offline stangs13

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Re: Slick Shearing vs haired shows
« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2009, 12:03:26 PM »
It doesnt matter what sort of show your showing in...good cattle are going to win, the guys that know what they are doing are going to win also... there are big dogs in slick shear just like there are in hair..I still like the hair shows though!
-Justin

Offline Zach

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Re: Slick Shearing vs haired shows
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2009, 12:24:02 PM »
cool rooms don't grow hair. if you took away the cool rooms from the people who usually have 5 inches of hair, they would still come to the show with 5 inches of hair because they work for it. cool rooms don't get monitored 24/7 either. more like from daylight to dusk. as for sending the calf off somewhere to get the hair, so be it. thats the way things are.
The livestock (show) industry is a tough one- if you've never had anything worth a damn you might as well go on the internet and rundown everybody you can.

Offline SlickTxMaine

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Re: Slick Shearing vs haired shows
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2009, 12:35:06 PM »
Speaking strictly about 4-H, FFA, and other youngster projects, unfortunately you will always have some that go overboard by either the parents doing all the work, or paying big money for someone else to do it.  Winning comes at any cost to those people.  I don't know of anyway to control that.  Last year at our small local FFA show (10 steers) where most kids purchase their animals from local breeders, some even through the local livestock auction, one family purchased their child's steer from out of state, paid 3 times + what others paid.  The steer won grand.  Many people were upset, but there is no restriction on where you buy your animal, or what you pay for it.  Once you looked at costs and expenses, my son made as much profit, if not more than their child.....but it was all about the win, and not the experience and life lessons for that family.  Unfortunately it will always be that way.   Don't know of any way to change it.  By the way, our show is slick.

Offline shorthorn boy

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Re: Slick Shearing vs haired shows
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2009, 12:44:04 PM »
I know of some people in my area that keep their steers in a cooler far a way form their house and really the only time they spend allot of time interacting with their animal is at the show and it makes me even more angry when they win and they haven't even really worked with that animal and the kid that has the better steer that he has worked with really hard but may not have quite as much hair gets beat. I don't think that is really right but thats just my opinion. Mostly what I see allot of is where that animal is kept at the kids house but the parents do ALL of that work. At fairs i see this allot where the kid is running round with his friends while his parents are washing, brushing, and blowing out the animal by themselves. I can understand the parents doing the work if it is that animal of a kid who is maybe on his first or second year of showing but I talking about twelve and thirteen year olds! I also see allot of families hire people yo come in to the jr shows and fitt for there kid. I see allot of where the kid is sitting down or talking with his friends while six people are fitting on his steer. I also do like hair shows I like to see a well fit animal as much as the next person but really all that these shows are especially the steer shows are beauty contest. The truly good animal doesn't always win, they are basically being judged on how good of a beautician you are. In the slick shear shows the truly good steer wins. In a hair show you can hide so may faults on that animal. Thankfully hair isn't as much of an issue in the breeding cattle shows. This is just my opinion on the subject and don't mean to offend anyone if I did.  JMHO
« Last Edit: July 28, 2009, 12:45:25 PM by shorthorn boy »

Offline HannaCattle

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Re: Slick Shearing vs haired shows
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2009, 12:49:36 PM »
what stangs and zach said

Offline SKF

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Re: Slick Shearing vs haired shows
« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2009, 01:27:00 PM »
I personally like the hair shows but I don't think hair is what wins a show. Everytime someone gets beat they blam it on the hair. A good judge can see through hair. My daughter had a steer last year that did very well in the show ring and he did not have any hair and he beat plenty of haired calves. Yes alot of those calves that you see win have lots of hair and other people grooming it but usually they are the better calves there. You can also win by hard work and educating yourself on how to pick out a calf. You can grow great hair without a cooler we have never had a cooler and we live in south Fl and some of our calves grow tons of hair. Genetics play the biggest part of hair. One thing we have learned is to look for calves with very hairy ears and you will usually have a very hairy calf without a cooler. Just because you see a kid having their calf groomed by a professional don't just assume they never do any of the hard work. I pay some to groom my daughters steer at some of the shows but thats because she shows several calves so she can not get all her calves ready by herself. The thing is that some people will just assume she never does the hard work and is handed a calf but what they don't see is all the hard work she puts in at home with her animals. She works her butt off with her calves. Yes some, a very small part of the show ring is a beauty contest its that way no matter what you are showing. Look at horse shows, cat shows, dogs, bird shows, beautiy pagents and whatever else you show looks do play a part of it. If the only thing that matter was the end product we could all save a lot of time and just show them hanging on the rail or we could judge heifers by how well they calve. An ugly crippled steer can win a carcass contest and I have a very ugly cow who has a good calf every 10-11 months.It does not matter what your involved in there will always someone with more money then sinse and those who bend the rules to benifit their kids. Sorry this is so long I just get tired of everyone thinking that the only way to make the playing field fair is to get rid the hair and fitters. In life the playing field is never even just do your best with what you have and work hard to get better. Your own personal goal are more important then the overall win.

Offline stangs13

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Re: Slick Shearing vs haired shows
« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2009, 01:29:21 PM »
Hair goes the same in breeding shows as it does in steer shows...sure heifers are clipped different, and you  want hair differently, but its still just as important..even the so called hairless american breeds are showing with hair. Hair can be grown on just about any type of cattle..genetics help of course...its usually the kids effort that shines through!

Work hard! Win big!
« Last Edit: July 28, 2009, 01:33:17 PM by stangs13 »
-Justin

Offline SlickTxMaine

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Re: Slick Shearing vs haired shows
« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2009, 01:34:17 PM »
In life the playing field is never even just do your best with what you have and work hard to get better. Your own personal goal are more important then the overall win.

Well said (clapping)

Offline DLD

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Re: Slick Shearing vs haired shows
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2009, 01:42:42 PM »
Oh boy, a new can of worms!!!  ;)

SWMO, I know exactly what you mean, and I feel your pain.  No matter what we do, the playing field will never be level.  But I'm right with you in your frustration at junior show cattle that stay in the care of jocks.  It gets kinda tough to take sometimes.

Zach, you can be assured that in the deals we're talking about, those cattle aren't just being stuck in a cooler everyday - they're getting the best nutrition and care (including hair care) that money can buy.  And it doesn't stop when they get to the show - at least in some places they even stall them all together and continue to handle them.  And they get the best crew of fitters money can buy, as well.

I love to fit cattle, too. And love to see a great fit job, whether it's on my kids calf or someone else's.  But the bottom line is that very, very few people can compete with that.  Not very long ago, I'd have yelled the loudest at slick shearing... now, I see some merit in it.  It still won't level the playing feild, those same people will still spend more money, and most likely win more shows, but it does give a good feeder a fighting chance to slip one in on 'em every now and then.

I know it varies from place to place, and alot of you have never even seen the kind of thing that SWMO and I are talking about.  I'm still not saying I want to slick 'em, but I can darn sure understand why some folks do.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2009, 01:44:37 PM by DLD »
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Offline SWMO

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Re: Slick Shearing vs haired shows
« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2009, 02:06:41 PM »
SKF I am not accusing all parents and kids of not doing the work at home.  We also hire help when we go to a show where we have more cattle to get ready than we have people.  Don't have a problem with that.  And yes typically good cattle do come to the top hair or no hair.  However I am seeing an ever increasing number of cattle (esp steers) coming into a show that have not even set a hoof in the state that they are ultimately competeing at.  No there is no way to completely eliminate this issue.  Just like in any sport there are people willing to win at all costs.

I did not say that I didn't like haired shows I was just tossing the question in the air to hear other opinions on this subject.  I was especially interested in the opinions of those in Texas that have both types of shows haired and slick sheared.

Offline showman, ne

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Re: Slick Shearing vs haired shows
« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2009, 03:28:31 PM »
I know of some people in my area that keep their steers in a cooler far a way form their house and really the only time they spend allot of time interacting with their animal is at the show and it makes me even more angry when they win and they haven't even really worked with that animal and the kid that has the better steer that he has worked with really hard but may not have quite as much hair gets beat. I don't think that is really right but thats just my opinion. Mostly what I see allot of is where that animal is kept at the kids house but the parents do ALL of that work. At fairs i see this allot where the kid is running round with his friends while his parents are washing, brushing, and blowing out the animal by themselves. I can understand the parents doing the work if it is that animal of a kid who is maybe on his first or second year of showing but I talking about twelve and thirteen year olds! I also see allot of families hire people yo come in to the jr shows and fitt for there kid. I see allot of where the kid is sitting down or talking with his friends while six people are fitting on his steer. I also do like hair shows I like to see a well fit animal as much as the next person but really all that these shows are especially the steer shows are beauty contest. The truly good animal doesn't always win, they are basically being judged on how good of a beautician you are. In the slick shear shows the truly good steer wins. In a hair show you can hide so may faults on that animal. Thankfully hair isn't as much of an issue in the breeding cattle shows. This is just my opinion on the subject and don't mean to offend anyone if I did.  JMHO

hair is just as important in breeding shows. also if a judge can't see thru the hair to the "better steer with not quite as much hair" i wouldn't get too upset about getting beat

Offline stangs13

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Re: Slick Shearing vs haired shows
« Reply #12 on: July 28, 2009, 03:53:22 PM »
The same guys that win all the slick shows here have also won ft worth before.
-Justin

Offline Dusty

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Re: Slick Shearing vs haired shows
« Reply #13 on: July 28, 2009, 04:09:02 PM »
When someone buys a top end of the show steer(state fair/major show caliber)for 30K+, why would they not have it in the hands of a professional to get it ready?  The elite show steer game is more like a horse race than a cattle show.  You have the owner(dad), the trainer(jock), and the jockey(kid).  The kid can't do all three jobs and run with the big boys consistantly.  Ya really have to decide what level you want to compete at.  I don't mean to not encourage kids to go to the big shows.  You will learn more getting buried in class at a state fair than you will winning your county fair.  Just don't complain about the other kids that win the big shows.
"If you see a opossum, try and kill it, it's not a pet...."

Offline Jill

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Re: Slick Shearing vs haired shows
« Reply #14 on: July 28, 2009, 04:27:47 PM »
I think this group is comparing apples and oranges here, I don't think you're finding many high dollar jock run steers on the county fair level unless you have one heck of a county.
In my opinion Slick vs Hair has nothing to do with it, those that have cattle that are cared for in another state by a professional will do so either way.  You're blaming a lot on a cooler and hair and I think that has very little to do with the reason these steers are being farmed out to a professional.
"Last year at our small local FFA show (10 steers) where most kids purchase their animals from local breeders, some even through the local livestock auction, one family purchased their child's steer from out of state, paid 3 times + what others paid.  The steer won grand.  Many people were upset, but there is no restriction on where you buy your animal, or what you pay for it.  Once you looked at costs and expenses, my son made as much profit, if not more than their child.....but it was all about the win, and not the experience and life lessons for that family." 
For those of you that feel the way this poster does I would like to say there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with winning.  Just because you spend a little more than the rest of the folks and don't make as much profit, in no way shape or form means you get nothing out of the project and your kids don't learn anything from it, I think that child learned what it feels like to be a winner and I can tell you it doesn't get much better than that, I say good for them!

 

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