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Offline BuckJones

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Smokies - Experiment
« on: October 16, 2010, 03:46:17 PM »
Hey,

So I was reading around on here. Came across a paragraph that Charolais white acts as a diluter colour. Therefore, redxcharolais = tan, yellow colour range
and blackxchar=grey smokies. True?

If so, here are my thoughts for my experiment:

I really love high yielding Limos. But they aren't always the showiest animals, nor easy to finish. I love white Char's because they are easy to finish, but I find them to have too big frames and they don't have as thick tops as the limos.
But I also want smokies.
So, I've been looking around. I really love New Direction 394P from Top Meadow Farms here in Canada: http://www.topmeadowfarms.com/bullsdetail.cfm?id=18
I have a friend who does purebred Char. Will check with him to see what the pedigrees on their cattle are.

But will this work? Will they still end up as smokies even if the bull is homozygous black? What kind of heifer would be a good compliment to cross him to?


Offline SongBird1232

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Re: Smokies - Experiment
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2010, 04:22:52 PM »
I think that they won't be the 'fancy' type of smokies. I've done angus and charolais, not on purpose, the bull jumped the fence, but they come off as a gray-white color. We called him Rocky because i mistaked him for a rock. But if you used a limo, i think it might come out differently.
Animals are such agreeable friends - they ask no questions, they pass no criticisms. ~George Eliot

Offline frostback

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Re: Smokies - Experiment
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2010, 06:31:45 PM »
Hey,

So I was reading around on here. Came across a paragraph that Charolais white acts as a diluter colour. Therefore, redxcharolais = tan, yellow colour range
and blackxchar=grey smokies. True?

If so, here are my thoughts for my experiment:

I really love high yielding Limos. But they aren't always the showiest animals, nor easy to finish. I love white Char's because they are easy to finish, but I find them to have too big frames and they don't have as thick tops as the limos.
But I also want smokies.
So, I've been looking around. I really love New Direction 394P from Top Meadow Farms here in Canada: http://www.topmeadowfarms.com/bullsdetail.cfm?id=18
I have a friend who does purebred Char. Will check with him to see what the pedigrees on their cattle are.

But will this work? Will they still end up as smokies even if the bull is homozygous black? What kind of heifer would be a good compliment to cross him to?




So let me see if I have what you are going to try before I answere. You want to use a Homo black bull on Charolais heifers or cows?
Some peoples true character only comes out in PMs.

Offline BuckJones

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Re: Smokies - Experiment
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2010, 07:17:26 PM »

So let me see if I have what you are going to try before I answere. You want to use a Homo black bull on Charolais heifers or cows?


Yes. :)
But now that you say that...if it's homo black, the calves would be black as well?
« Last Edit: October 16, 2010, 07:18:07 PM by BuckJones »

Offline Mark H

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Re: Smokies - Experiment
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2010, 07:28:42 PM »
Buck,
If you use a homozygous blacK Limo bull on typical white Charolais females you will get a smokey calf.  The Limo char cross does work, Just haven't seen it done with a black Limo bull might just work!

Offline caldanmc

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Re: Smokies - Experiment
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2010, 01:44:47 AM »
Hey,

So I was reading around on here. Came across a paragraph that Charolais white acts as a diluter colour. Therefore, redxcharolais = tan, yellow colour range
and blackxchar=grey smokies. True?

If so, here are my thoughts for my experiment:

I really love high yielding Limos. But they aren't always the showiest animals, nor easy to finish. I love white Char's because they are easy to finish, but I find them to have too big frames and they don't have as thick tops as the limos.
But I also want smokies.
So, I've been looking around. I really love New Direction 394P from Top Meadow Farms here in Canada: http://www.topmeadowfarms.com/bullsdetail.cfm?id=18
I have a friend who does purebred Char. Will check with him to see what the pedigrees on their cattle are.

But will this work? Will they still end up as smokies even if the bull is homozygous black? What kind of heifer would be a good compliment to cross him to?




The Charolais color gene is a diluter.  Regardless of what you breed them to, the color will be diluted.  We have had several cows in our herd that have carried and expressed the diluter gene.  90 percent of the time, those cows that carried the gene, had diluted calves when mated to homozygous black bulls.  If you are breeding to purebred Charolais cattle, the calves should be diluted...smokey when mated to blacks, yellow when mated to reds. 
"Success is Reason Enough"

Offline BuckJones

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Re: Smokies - Experiment
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2010, 02:23:27 AM »
K. Thanks for the info. Do you have any pics of your smokie calves?

I don't know what it is, but I just like Limos...prob because they are the only breed in these parts that show any muscle expression other than chars.
I also like the "Maine" look...but there is just something about them holding me back from really loving them, they aren't that common around these parts either.
So, the bull I picked because he's kinda the best of both worlds for me...he's a high percentage limo, but kinda has a very straight, stout maine look.

Another question:

Would it be possible to breed back to high percentage Limo while keeping the diluted look? How would this work?

Offline Freddy

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Re: Smokies - Experiment
« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2010, 03:37:09 PM »
One guy I know of is using  PUREBRED CREAM CHAROLAIS bull on black Angus cows an says he gets black calves .   Will this work ....

Offline Jeff_Schroeder

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Re: Smokies - Experiment
« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2010, 04:21:26 PM »
It's a pretty simple gene and similar to roaning.  If D is the Charolais dilution gene and d is non-diluted...

DD - White

Dd - Faded color of what it would be otherwise.  (smoke, light red, etc.)

dd - No impact.

That's why Charolais (DD) x Angus (dd) always results in a smoke assuming the Angus is homozygous black.  When you breed a smoke (Dd) to another homozygous black animal (dd) it's a 50/50 shot on smokes.

 

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