Square over rump?

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aj

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Jul 5, 2006
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western kansas
Do the square over the rump cattle equate to good carcasses? Isn't this more of a skeletal defect than a muscle deal. Usually the top carcass cattle in feedlots don't look anything like the freakazoid steers in shows. Is there any merit in producing cattle that are square over the hip? Isn't this the shape that kills cows during the birthing process.
 

knabe

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Feb 7, 2007
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Hollister, CA
it would be hard to do a controlled study for that.  almost no one would understand the statistics and populations necessary to test this.

most arguments are set up to be anecdotal.

there are plenty of wildebeasts who would agree with you.

what's the distribution of your herd for rump slope?  selection may have skewed the population to help confuse the notion that rump slope is linked to good carcass.

correlation is sufficient proof for just about any fad.
 

TJR

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Nov 24, 2009
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Years ago there was a Dr. Jan Bonsma from S Africa who did a bunch of work on phenotype and its relationship to economically important traits.  I think he addressed this issue.
 

chambero

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Feb 12, 2007
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Texas
I do keep up with how show steers perform with their carcasses in large groups.  There is plenty of data from Texas majors.

What data is out there that shows cattle with round or sloping butts have good carcasses, let alone better ones?

Show steers have their problems, but carcass quality isnt one of them.
 

justintime

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May 26, 2007
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Saskatchewan Canada
I think there is good merit with animals that carry thickness through their rumps, but like almost everything in the cattle business, and life in general, too much of a good thing can lead to other problems. In this case, the show ring has glorified females with huge square hip structure and in some cases this has led to some females who wouild have problems calving a jack rabbit. There is nothing wrong with thick rumped females if people remember that their reproductive functionality depends on proper shape of these parts of the anatomy. In the search for these huge hipped females that the judges seem to love, some people forget that in a properly structured female, the pin bones have to be placed lower than the hook bones. Females with their pin bones placed too high may look great, but they will almost always struggle to get birth to a normal sized calf without assistance. Take a look at animals in nature, and you may get a better idea of what I am referring to. I haven't seen many deer that have died giving birth. In the cattle industry, I often think that the Brahman influnce breeds have done a much better job in keeping some sense to this idea of thick rumped females. I haven't seen as many earred cattle as many of you, but I always take some time to study these cattle when the opportunity arises. I have always been impressed with these cattle as they have managed to get them pretty thick made, especially through their rumps, but they have also retained excellent hook and pin placement in these cattle. As a result, calving problems in most Brahman breeds is very low, and most of the females in these breeds could calve an elephant. Tail head setting is also an extremely important trait, and we don't need any of these females with their tail head setting almnsot between their pin bones. A female's tail head should be slightly elevated and connected to the end of the spine so that it hangs straight down the rump. If it is attached too far ahead or has any slope other than straight down, I would bet my farm that there will be reproductive issues in her future. 
I'm all for thick made animals, but we need more judges that will start to line these cattle up with some consideration of functional everyday traits... and proper calving ease traits should be first and foremost.

I also feel that some other problems also start appearing when too little consideration is given to the functional traits I have mentioned. I attended a well known sale, a couple of years ago, where many show winning heifers were sold. These females had tremendous thickness, but I was somewhat shocked at how many of these females were structured through their rumps. Not only did many of these females have high pin placement, but almost all that had this trait, also had very small vulvas and I would bet my farm, that several of these would end up being non breeders or sub fertile at least.  I enjoy shows as much as anyone, but I do wish we could get back to showing breeding cattle rather than just breeding show cattle. Every part of this industry would benefit if we did this. I have no studies to back up what I'm saying here, other than my lifetime in this business, and hopefully a little understanding of what will work and what won't, once these animals lose their show halters. There are many outstanding show animals that go on to have great productive futures, but there are also many that are never heard of again.
 

PDJ

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Aug 14, 2011
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124
I don't believe a square rump has any correlation positive or negative on carcass results.  I do believe it has an effect on fertility.  I don't have any statistics at hand, but it seems to me that there is a direct correlation from rump structure to pelvic size.  It has also been documented that a higher tailset may lead to a higher incidence of urinary tract infections.

On a side note, back in 1985 (showing my age :)) I had a Nero steer that posted one of the best carcasses I have ever seen.  Live weight 1380, carcass weight 931, dressing percent 67.5%, backfat .25", low choice, REA of 15.2.  Judge placed him 3rd in the carcass contest because he was "too big for the box". ::)  This was also a college professor of mine, so I had a hard time respecting him.
 

vanridge

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Jan 26, 2011
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468
Location
Manitoba, Canada
I agree with JIT.
At our local carcass competition I haven't seen a correlation between square rumps and carcass quality. In fact we usually see limos close and simmys close to the top and as a general rule limos tend to have a definite slope to their rumps.
 

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