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Offline cjr

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Swollen Navel
« on: August 04, 2012, 01:03:42 PM »
I have a 4 day old bull calf that has a swollen navel about the size of a quarter. What can I doctor him with?

Offline leanbeef

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Re: Swollen Navel
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2012, 05:34:32 PM »
Iodine. The sooner the better. Sprayed directly onto the navel. A little swelling isn't necessarily an indication of navel ill, but you want to head that off. Either on clean pasture or clean bedded stall. Watch his joints, especially the front knees...if he starts to swell or bow in the knees, that's pretty sure sign of navel ill...be aggressive in treating that if it goes that way.

Offline DL

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Re: Swollen Navel
« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2012, 06:18:55 PM »
Iodine. The sooner the better. Sprayed directly onto the navel. A little swelling isn't necessarily an indication of navel ill, but you want to head that off. Either on clean pasture or clean bedded stall. Watch his joints, especially the front knees...if he starts to swell or bow in the knees, that's pretty sure sign of navel ill...be aggressive in treating that if it goes that way.

While I agree with iodine (7% not 2% and it should be done as soon as the calf is born - may not do much 4 days later) I disagree with your assessment - once the knees are swollen the joints are infected and the calf has been septic - you may feel an infected navel or the infection may go up the blood vessels and form an abscess that you do not feel. By the time the knees are swollen you can be in a world of hurt - I think cjr is right to try to jump on it early

so for cjr questions
1. what if anything did you treat the navel with when the calf was born?
2. where was the calf born - ie was he born in the mud or dirt and the umbilical cord ended up covered with crud and kinda nasty
3. what does the swelling feel like - ie is it the cord and you feel it as it goes into the belly and it is a quarter sized from left to right or is it more like a round quarter sized area? Is it hard soft or squishy?
4. What is the calf's temperature and approach to life?
5. If the cord was not treated when the calf was born, and if he was born in a dirty area so the cord got crud on it and if the swelling does not feel just like blood vessels that have not regressed (which is basically what the umbilical cord is - a bunch of blood vessels encased in a membrane) I suggest you call your veterinarian to jump on the issue before it becomes a systemic problem - good luck
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Offline cjr

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Re: Swollen Navel
« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2012, 07:09:19 PM »
The calf was born in dry dirt pen. I did not use Iodine. The swelling is hard right in the middle of the navel. The calf was running around and nursing he seems to feel ok.

Offline orf

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Re: Swollen Navel
« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2012, 07:28:04 PM »
we treat with 3cc of tetredure 300 and 5 cc of dex 3 days in a row and that takes care of it 9 times out of ten

Offline DL

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Re: Swollen Navel
« Reply #5 on: August 04, 2012, 08:19:43 PM »
we treat with 3cc of tetredure 300 and 5 cc of dex 3 days in a row and that takes care of it 9 times out of ten

orf - Why would you use dexamethasone, a drug that while it may decrease inflammation, also decreases the ability of the body to fight infection - especially repeating a 10 mg dose (assuming you have the cattle drug 2 mg/ml) 3 days in a row? That is generically a bad idea in the case of any infection, esp navel infection in calves  -

cjr - call your vet - that sounds abnormal
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Offline orf

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Re: Swollen Navel
« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2012, 11:38:08 AM »
we treat with 3cc of tetredure 300 and 5 cc of dex 3 days in a row and that takes care of it 9 times out of ten

orf - Why would you use dexamethasone, a drug that while it may decrease inflammation, also decreases the ability of the body to fight infection - especially repeating a 10 mg dose (assuming you have the cattle drug 2 mg/ml) 3 days in a row? That is generically a bad idea in the case of any infection, esp navel infection in calves  -

cjr - call your vet - that sounds abnormal


it works. our vet was the one who told us to do it. clears up navals and swolen joints. weve probly treated over 50 calves in the last 5 years like this and calves have always got better.

Offline DL

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Re: Swollen Navel
« Reply #7 on: August 05, 2012, 01:33:52 PM »
we treat with 3cc of tetredure 300 and 5 cc of dex 3 days in a row and that takes care of it 9 times out of ten


orf - Why would you use dexamethasone, a drug that while it may decrease inflammation, also decreases the ability of the body to fight infection - especially repeating a 10 mg dose (assuming you have the cattle drug 2 mg/ml) 3 days in a row? That is generically a bad idea in the case of any infection, esp navel infection in calves  -

cjr - call your vet - that sounds abnormal



it works. our vet was the one who told us to do it. clears up navals and swolen joints. weve probly treated over 50 calves in the last 5 years like this and calves have always got better.


HOLY MOLY - IMHO if you have had to treat over 50 calves in the last 5 years for navel ill you have a management problem and I would take a closer look at colostrum management, where you cows calve (ie cleanliness) and how you treat the navels in the newborn calves - prevention is the key to the disease - not drugs, and the drugs usually recommended for treatment of navel ill are antibiotics and pain killers not antibiotics and immunosuppressives ....

http://www.thecattlesite.com/diseaseinfo/216/joint-ill-navel-ill-of-calves

ps naval is the Navy, navel is the unbilicus and the orange/color]
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Offline aj

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Re: Swollen Navel
« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2012, 01:56:51 PM »
Doc....I have this burning sensation when I........can you help me out? ;D
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Offline cccf

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Re: Swollen Navel
« Reply #9 on: August 05, 2012, 02:25:14 PM »
i'd like to see a scientific study where the number of cases of navel ill are compared with using iodine and not using it.  It seems around here that once we quit using it, our infections went away-- seems that iodine does nothing but keep that cord moist longer, which allows for the bacteria to enter over an extended period of time.


Offline DL

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Re: Swollen Navel
« Reply #10 on: August 05, 2012, 03:32:29 PM »
i'd like to see a scientific study where the number of cases of navel ill are compared with using iodine and not using it.  It seems around here that once we quit using it, our infections went away-- seems that iodine does nothing but keep that cord moist longer, which allows for the bacteria to enter over an extended period of time.



I believe that there are studies - I will see if I can find them - 7% iodine is very much a drying agent and if you are using 7% iodine and your navels are moist it would suggest that the calf had a patent urachus or that you are not exposing the cord to sufficient iodine. "Tame iodine " like that found in teat dip, wound care and skin cleaner is not the same and will not dry out the cord but rather leave in moist

I believe in using the slosh twice method - making sure that the iodine has the ability to get into the cord not just on it. The iodine needs to be sloshed as soon as the calf is born - the longer you wait after birth the more likely bugs will get into the umbilicus. Also you need to have a disposable container for your iodine ie paper cup with fresh iodine in it - use on one calf and dump the container and remaining iodine. I don't think spraying is as effective. And BTW even good iodine sloshing cannot always overcome dirty environment and lack of quality colostrum

Since 7% iodine is now controlled and may be more difficult to obtain I believe there are studies looking at other agents - I'll see if I can find them....

aj - take 2 aspirin and call me in the morning
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Offline DL

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Offline cjr

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Re: Swollen Navel
« Reply #12 on: August 05, 2012, 05:00:50 PM »
I gave 4cc's Duramycin 72-200 and 2cc's Dex. The swelling has already gone down.

Offline Gargan

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Re: Swollen Navel
« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2013, 02:50:36 PM »
will iodine treat this? this calves naval is swollen at the top and the calf is 4 days old. its dry at the bottom and looks like a cherry tomato at the top where it meets the belly
« Last Edit: February 21, 2013, 02:51:15 PM by Gargan »
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Offline pf

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Re: Swollen Navel
« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2013, 08:20:10 PM »
we treat with 3cc of tetredure 300 and 5 cc of dex 3 days in a row and that takes care of it 9 times out of ten


orf - Why would you use dexamethasone, a drug that while it may decrease inflammation, also decreases the ability of the body to fight infection - especially repeating a 10 mg dose (assuming you have the cattle drug 2 mg/ml) 3 days in a row? That is generically a bad idea in the case of any infection, esp navel infection in calves  -

cjr - call your vet - that sounds abnormal



it works. our vet was the one who told us to do it. clears up navals and swolen joints. weve probly treated over 50 calves in the last 5 years like this and calves have always got better.


HOLY MOLY - IMHO if you have had to treat over 50 calves in the last 5 years for navel ill you have a management problem and I would take a closer look at colostrum management, where you cows calve (ie cleanliness) and how you treat the navels in the newborn calves - prevention is the key to the disease - not drugs, and the drugs usually recommended for treatment of navel ill are antibiotics and pain killers not antibiotics and immunosuppressives ....

http://www.thecattlesite.com/diseaseinfo/216/joint-ill-navel-ill-of-calves

ps naval is the Navy, navel is the unbilicus and the orange/color]



50 divided by 5 DL is 10 per year???? You say that's excessive? You might want to realize that ORF is calving out more than 10-20 cows per year...... not quite a hobby farm!!!! I think they get along alright, not saying they are experts like you with your naval,navel smartass remark but I think they know enough to keep their head above water...... the boys at orf know what the hell they are doing..... anyway on the original post..... excenel sub q in the forerib, the iodine has to be early, iodine at day 4 is wasting your time. Draxxin is another good option.

 

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