Time to start thinking about breeding my show heifer....any suggestions?

shortyjock89 · Apr 2, 2008

Well guys, it's about time to order semen on the bull that I am going to breed my show heifer too. Many of you have seen pictures and know her pedigree, but for those of you who don't know what she is, here we go... A May, Perfect Timing x Sonny daughter that I have quite a fondness for. I want to breed her to a PB Shorthorn, but there aren't a whole lot of choices.

Bulls that are I'm considering: Ar Su Lu Tonic Good- Cate's, V8, and WHR backing him, Cate's bred the $105,000 heifer to him Bad- $50/straw minimum of 5 straws, $50 for cert.
PB Kryptonite Good- Excellent pedigree, we have used him with success, backed by Leemon's and Payne's, FWIW Bad- Not much....maybe doesn't throw as much thickness as a clubby bull.

I'm open to suggestions, feel free to sound off!!

knabe · Apr 2, 2008

prove her first, then flush her to him after a few calves. be a little patient. the price won't seem so bad if she's good. if she turns out to be average, it would be a waste.
if you flush her, the semen cost will be the least of your worries.

separate question
is it really necessary or cost effective to "prove" a heifer/young with the best bulls? if papers sell the animal, how does one plan to catch up?

i guess it's a cyclical game vs the sustained game.

TJ · Apr 2, 2008

Olson Family Shorthorns said:
Well guys, it's about time to order semen on the bull that I am going to breed my show heifer too. Many of you have seen pictures and know her pedigree, but for those of you who don't know what she is, here we go... A May, Perfect Timing x Sonny daughter that I have quite a fondness for. I want to breed her to a PB Shorthorn, but there aren't a whole lot of choices.

Bulls that are I'm considering: Ar Su Lu Tonic Good- Cate's, V8, and WHR backing him, Cate's bred the $105,000 heifer to him Bad- $50/straw minimum of 5 straws, $50 for cert.
PB Kryptonite Good- Excellent pedigree, we have used him with success, backed by Leemon's and Payne's, FWIW Bad- Not much....maybe doesn't throw as much thickness as a clubby bull.

I'm open to suggestions, feel free to sound off!!

You already know what I would suggest, LOL!!

But, I know you want a PB Shorthorn.

I'm not a shorthorn expert, by any means, but I am slowly learning a little bit from a few on this board who are... What about Jake's Proud Jazz or Gizmo?

shortyjock89 · Apr 2, 2008

Knabe- not sure what you mean...I'm trying to find a bull to breed her to first...I listed two bulls that I am considering. I AM however flushing her mother to Perfect Timing, and possibly Prince James.

TJ- Ahhh, she might get flushed to him at some point, but idk yet. Jake's Proud Jazz- He's pretty small framed, but he is pretty good.
Gizmo- Isn't his semen somewhere around $100/straw? He would be in the running if it were a bit cheaper.

knabe · Apr 2, 2008

Olson Family Shorthorns said:
Bad- $50/straw minimum of 5 straws, $50 for cert.

PB Kryptonite Good- Excellent pedigree, we have used him with success, backed by Leemon's and Payne's, FWIW Bad- Not much....maybe doesn't throw as much thickness as a clubby bull.

choose number two as the he doesn't seem to have the price reservations and if she turns out to be a producer, the cost reservations won't matter when you breed her to #1. then if that calf is good, you still may have 4 shots left, you can flush her twice/four times? to him, get maybe 8-32 eggs/babies, and that cost will be such a low percentage of the overall cost, you won't even think about it.

before i did that, i would want to make sure she did something for me rather than just be good on paper, which doesn't help as much as if you are the breeder of the non-owned ancestry. then, paper goes a lot further.

Doc · Apr 2, 2008

I like ALM Chiller, Ar Su Lu Osage & I know I'm going to get blasted for it - Ar Su Lu Kool . I'm not a very big Tonic fan at all.

shortyjock89 · Apr 2, 2008

That's kind of what I was thinking too, as we already have Kryptonite semen in the tank. If I could get more Prince James, that's what we would use. We only have 4 straws of him left, and we're saving it for a flush.

I wouldn't even think about flushing a heifer. Don't get me wrong, this heifer's pedigree is stacked, but I really do want to know what she can do before we think about making her a donor.

Doc- Is Chiller calving ease? I don't mind you suggesting Kool...in fact, this heifer's two half brothers were both out of Kool. Really good calves, both were champions, but they just didn't have a nice enough front or quite enough grow. Also could have used more bone. I'm being picky, but I think that it pays to be.

oakbar · Apr 2, 2008

Olson's,

We used ALM Chiller last year on a couple heifers. Pretty good calves. They were both easily delivered and very energetic at birth. We also had a Tonic calf this year that you've seen posted here before. We really like him and being out of a Sonny/Charmer momma, we think he might make a pretty good bull prospect. Only time will tell. I also heard good things about JPJ!! We'll probably use him this year on a couple of heifers. We may also consider a Maine bull
called DCC Smokin Joe from Brushy Park Farm(DeRouchey)

frostback · Apr 2, 2008

Do you happen to know if Chiller is TH and PHA clean?

shortyjock89 · Apr 2, 2008

Yep, just checked Manchester's website...free of both...I think I'm gonna give them a call....

TJ · Apr 2, 2008

Olson Family Shorthorns said:
Jake's Proud Jazz- He's pretty small framed, but he is pretty good.

Something wrong with being small framed & pretty good?

I know what you are trying to do & I am just messing with you.

Still, I honestly do think that JPJ would be a real good choice for her 1st calf.

I didn't realize Gizmo was so high, so I just learned something else about Shorthorns.

shortyjock89 · Apr 2, 2008

Oooohhhh you sure do like to get me worked up lol.

JPJ would certainly be a very reasonable first choice, but you know me...I like to see what else there is before I make a decision.

Gizmo's son, Wymore is a definite contender in this race, I'm going to have to make a couple calls to some people and try to gather a bit more info.

TJ · Apr 2, 2008

Olson Family Shorthorns said:
Oooohhhh you sure do like to get me worked up lol.

JPJ would certainly be a very reasonable first choice, but you know me...I like to see what else there is before I make a decision.

Gizmo's son, Wymore is a definite contender in this race, I'm going to have to make a couple calls to some people and try to gather a bit more info.

A Wymore heifer in another thread looked pretty good to me. Not a lot of hair, but she looked pretty good otherwise.

Bawndoh · Apr 2, 2008

$50/straw is not that expensive considering that you are getting "world class" genetics.
There are many people in Canada demanding $50-$100/straw on what I would consider mediocre garbage. LOL.

shortyjock89 · Apr 2, 2008

But if I can find more world class genetics at half the price, wouldn't that make sense? I'm all for top shelf stuff, wouldn't have it any other way, but I like to explore my options.

afhm · Apr 2, 2008

I would use JPJ, or breed for a shorthorn plus or whatever they are calling the percentage cattle these days. Maybe go red angus for a duhram red. I am definately not a Tonic fan. He is being promoted heavily so you would get a calf out of a famous sire. My problem with him is out of the many calves I have seen out of him at various place is very few of them were very good and most of them imo were not even been good enough to consider bad. I like the way Tonic looks, I had planned on trying him until I saw his calves.

OH Breeder · Apr 2, 2008

I used Gizmo and had SUPER Success. I would use Wymore after seeing his picture without hesitation. Where is there a picture of PB Kryptonite? YOu could also shooot for a Durham Red.

shortyjock89 · Apr 2, 2008

PB Kryptonite picture:

I don't think that I want any more % Shorthorn calves next year. 1/3 of our projected calf crop will already be ShorthornPlus or Mainetainer.

P.S. Sorry for the huge picture...

Doc · Apr 2, 2008

Olson Family Shorthorns said:
But if I can find more world class genetics at half the price, wouldn't that make sense? I'm all for top shelf stuff, wouldn't have it any other way, but I like to explore my options.

Absolutely makes sense to me ! I think people price themselves out of the market sometimes, with so many options out there. One example I can name off the top is Pa Do Boxer. He was a bull that was named Nat'l Champ & truly deserved it (IMO), but they priced his semen at $50/straw with a 10 straw min. Like we've discussed before with the avg Shortie breeder having 10-20 cows they're usually not apt to spend that kind of money on one bull.

Davis Shorthorns · Apr 2, 2008

I have a bull calf on the ground now out of K- Kim revamp and he looks great. Also I wouldn't be afraid of using him on a heifer.

Time to start thinking about breeding my show heifer....any suggestions?

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