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Offline fordkindagirl

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Trouble Keeping Manure Solid-Activated Charcoal
« on: October 03, 2010, 08:59:00 PM »
We've always had trouble keeping my steer's manure solid. Now when we first got him there was a valid reason (coccidia) but now it takes so little to give him scours. He is really hard to keep solid, and when your in a fully concrete school barn you get tired of trying to clean up runny manure. He is on Showmaster (which you aren't even supposed to feed hay with, since it is supposed  to have enough fiber on its own), FastTrack and Haygrazer. He gets  20 lbs of feed, 2 oz of FastTrack (only once a week), and 4 flakes a day. We took a stool sample to the vet and he was clean, and he is being dewormed every 45 days.
So I was thinking about "resetting" his system. Give him a tube of activated charcoal (flushes pretty much EVERYTHING out) then giving a pretty good sized dose of Probios (two normal sized doses), then one dose of Probios a day for three days afterwards, and as much hay as he will eat. And during it he will get the normal amount of feed.
Any thoughts? Or any other strategies (besides putting him on straight hay or reducing his feed- just can't afford it)?
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JTM

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Re: Trouble Keeping Manure Solid-Activated Charcoal
« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2010, 09:50:52 PM »
I'm not familiar with the feeds you are feeding, but it could be the percentage of protein he is getting. If the combination is much above 11% you may be causing it through the feed. We feed Rowe Jackpot .49 and have for many years. It has decoquinate for coccidiosis and is 11% protein with high energy. If I had this problem I would feed the Rowe jackpot with one flake of straw per day. Just my thoughts.

Offline afhm

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Re: Trouble Keeping Manure Solid-Activated Charcoal
« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2010, 10:51:05 PM »
The fastrack should be fed 1 oz everyday.  Maybe you should try a grass hay instead of the haygrazer.  He may just have a sensitive stomach and can't handle the feed, remember cattle are designed to eat grass.

Offline fordkindagirl

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Re: Trouble Keeping Manure Solid-Activated Charcoal
« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2010, 10:11:10 PM »
He gets 2 oz once a week cause the vet says it is possible to overstimulate the rumen. And I really don't want to switch hays as haygrazer has a higher digestibility and helps keep their rumen healthier. According to the vet one of the best hays to feed to sensitive steers.


Showmaster is by Acco 12% protein 5% fat, and he has been solid on it. He just randomly gets runny, I don't change anything, do anything out of the ordinary and once he gets runny it is hard to get him solid.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2010, 05:38:42 AM by fordkindagirl »
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Offline CAB

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Re: Trouble Keeping Manure Solid-Activated Charcoal
« Reply #4 on: October 05, 2010, 07:35:46 AM »
It's quite possible that if your calf had the coccidiosis for a period of time that some damage to his villia has resulted and it will be difficult for him to absorb nutrients. You may want to ask your vet, but the intestines may have some scarring over from the parasite.

Offline fordkindagirl

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Re: Trouble Keeping Manure Solid-Activated Charcoal
« Reply #5 on: October 05, 2010, 12:26:31 PM »
It's quite possible that if your calf had the coccidiosis for a period of time that some damage to his villia has resulted and it will be difficult for him to absorb nutrients. You may want to ask your vet, but the intestines may have some scarring over from the parasite.
I was wondering if it was that. But his case was only sub-clinical so the vet said it is unlikey there is scarring, but it is not impossible.
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Offline OH Breeder

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Re: Trouble Keeping Manure Solid-Activated Charcoal
« Reply #6 on: October 05, 2010, 12:57:50 PM »
We've always had trouble keeping my steer's manure solid. Now when we first got him there was a valid reason (coccidia) but now it takes so little to give him scours. He is really hard to keep solid, and when your in a fully concrete school barn you get tired of trying to clean up runny manure. He is on Showmaster (which you aren't even supposed to feed hay with, since it is supposed  to have enough fiber on its own), FastTrack and Haygrazer. He gets  20 lbs of feed, 2 oz of FastTrack (only once a week), and 4 flakes a day. We took a stool sample to the vet and he was clean, and he is being dewormed every 45 days.
So I was thinking about "resetting" his system. Give him a tube of activated charcoal (flushes pretty much EVERYTHING out) then giving a pretty good sized dose of Probios (two normal sized doses), then one dose of Probios a day for three days afterwards, and as much hay as he will eat. And during it he will get the normal amount of feed.
Any thoughts? Or any other strategies (besides putting him on straight hay or reducing his feed- just can't afford it)?

Who suggested the activated charcoal? Was that something your vet suggested? Usually when the intestine takes a hit you need to re-establish the flora. The only way ot do that is through probioitics and or live cultures like yogurt. Charcoal will nuetralize the pH in the stomach and make the enviroment less acidic. Charcoal does not promote bowel motility or act as a laxative.
You know coccidia is an intestinal parasite correct. Many of the medications that are given may disrupt the pH and kill the flora in the intestine.Coccidia destroys cells and tissue in the lower intestinal tract. I am not sure how long ago he was treated but it takes time to heal.
Life is too short....don't sweat the small stuff.

Offline fordkindagirl

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Re: Trouble Keeping Manure Solid-Activated Charcoal
« Reply #7 on: October 05, 2010, 04:08:32 PM »
We've always had trouble keeping my steer's manure solid. Now when we first got him there was a valid reason (coccidia) but now it takes so little to give him scours. He is really hard to keep solid, and when your in a fully concrete school barn you get tired of trying to clean up runny manure. He is on Showmaster (which you aren't even supposed to feed hay with, since it is supposed  to have enough fiber on its own), FastTrack and Haygrazer. He gets  20 lbs of feed, 2 oz of FastTrack (only once a week), and 4 flakes a day. We took a stool sample to the vet and he was clean, and he is being dewormed every 45 days.
So I was thinking about "resetting" his system. Give him a tube of activated charcoal (flushes pretty much EVERYTHING out) then giving a pretty good sized dose of Probios (two normal sized doses), then one dose of Probios a day for three days afterwards, and as much hay as he will eat. And during it he will get the normal amount of feed.
Any thoughts? Or any other strategies (besides putting him on straight hay or reducing his feed- just can't afford it)?

Who suggested the activated charcoal? Was that something your vet suggested? Usually when the intestine takes a hit you need to re-establish the flora. The only way ot do that is through probioitics and or live cultures like yogurt. Charcoal will nuetralize the pH in the stomach and make the enviroment less acidic. Charcoal does not promote bowel motility or act as a laxative.
You know coccidia is an intestinal parasite correct. Many of the medications that are given may disrupt the pH and kill the flora in the intestine.Coccidia destroys cells and tissue in the lower intestinal tract. I am not sure how long ago he was treated but it takes time to heal.
The vet suggested the activated charcoal. And what I meant by "flushing out" is it takes all toxins, bad bacteria, contaminants, etc. out of the system. Google medical purpose of activated charcoal. And I do know that coccidia is a microscopic intestinal parasite. And by lower intestine I am assuming you mean large intestine ? He had a sub-clinical case meaning it hadn't reached his large intestine, it was only in his small intestine. And he was treated 3 months ago with the powdered Corid you put in their water.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2010, 04:41:50 PM by fordkindagirl »
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Offline rackranch

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Re: Trouble Keeping Manure Solid-Activated Charcoal
« Reply #8 on: October 05, 2010, 05:02:10 PM »
To me when your pushing steers and it has been hot as it has this summer it is natural for the calf to stay a little loose... I wouldn't worry unless you are getting a lot splatter when the patty hits the ground (keep in mind it is concrete). Is your steer converting his feed as good as any other steers in the barn??? most of the steers we are feeding out at this time are a little loose and have been all summer but they are converting as good as I would expect and are in line with their target weights for Jan. Feb. and Mar.  We have only one steer that actually has what I call stackable patties but his conversion isn't any better than the rest... If you know your target weight and your goal and your calve is in good shape now he will only get better with this cool weather coming in...Sometimes its easy to try to over think and give your steer a bunch of stuff he doesn't need and may actually upset the situation worse.. Feed, hay, and H2O...JMO
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Offline OH Breeder

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Re: Trouble Keeping Manure Solid-Activated Charcoal
« Reply #9 on: October 05, 2010, 05:38:29 PM »
I am aware of medical use of activated charcoal as I worked ER for 15 years. We use it with ingestions of toxic substances. We don't give it with internal parasites routinely. Charcoal absorbs substance as well as gas. Believe it or not if u can get ur calf to eat yogurt which some will it really does help.
 
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Offline coachmac

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Re: Trouble Keeping Manure Solid-Activated Charcoal
« Reply #10 on: October 06, 2010, 10:45:05 PM »
We had a heifer (sons) that was a little like that.  We had her on a 12.5% protein ration and evertime we tried to bump it up she went runny.  We finally got her to get solid by cutting back her feed quite a bit replacing with cotton seed hulls and beet pulp.  We also gave her free reign of high quality muda hay.  That got us through a rough time and then built up gradually.  We really had to watch that she didnt get anyone elses feed too when no one was watching! Finally, after her last show, we turned her out on grass and within a week her stool never looked better.     

Offline CAB

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Re: Trouble Keeping Manure Solid-Activated Charcoal
« Reply #11 on: October 07, 2010, 01:27:05 PM »
IMO some of these feeds are too "RICH" for some calves. You may want to try to lower the protein level & the energy.
  If you talk to a nutritionist, they'll tell you that for maximum performance a calf's stools should be a little on the loose side.

Offline kvhranch

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Re: Trouble Keeping Manure Solid-Activated Charcoal
« Reply #12 on: October 07, 2010, 04:41:32 PM »
We are new to all this, so take it for what it's worth.  We fed a scoop of Optizyme every day to our steer last year.  It's a daily probiotic.  It's in the horse supplement section but says you can feed it to cattle.  When we would ran out and didn't feed him it for about 2 weeks - by the end of that period he was very runny.  Got him back on it and in a week and all was good.

 

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