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Offline outspoken

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What can you tell me on the pedigree of this bull?
« on: November 30, 2010, 09:28:40 AM »
Since I'm out on a loop on the older Shorthorn genetics out there, about all I can concur from this pedigree is that he's got 3 shots of HR Mona Lisa W684Y (KKim donor) in 4 generations, who was a Rodeo Drive daughter.. plus one more shot of RD.  If I remember, RD was a bigger harder doing kinda sire? 

Reg # *x4164544

Bull's about 15 months old, and been running cows all fall, so he's a little thin....  picture attached for giggles

Offline Okotoks

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Re: What can you tell me on the pedigree of this bull?
« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2010, 10:28:01 AM »
I'm not an expert on Rodeo Drive but Mona Lisa was a top producing cow and K Kim Irish Elite left a lot of good bulls. That color would be a problem in our market but some people like chrome.

Offline oakview

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Re: What can you tell me on the pedigree of this bull?
« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2010, 01:34:49 PM »
I would suggest getting on the ASA website and search the bull's pedigree.  It will go back many generations.  Of course, you have to rely on the accuracy of the animals listed in the ancestry.  I've had my doubts about old RD, but who knows?

Offline outspoken

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Re: What can you tell me on the pedigree of this bull?
« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2010, 02:53:51 PM »
I would suggest getting on the ASA website and search the bull's pedigree.  It will go back many generations.  Of course, you have to rely on the accuracy of the animals listed in the ancestry.  I've had my doubts about old RD, but who knows?

I have been on there looking at his pedigree..  but as I have asked, I don't know much about the past Shorthorn circles, and there bloodlines and progeny.  Most of these cattle, I have never heard of, like the Cactus Jack, Pacer, or Equity's Pride bulls. 

I do realilze the importance of the Leader bulls back in there, and Trump at 5 generations, or most closely the New Sensation bull that grandsired this bull calf. 

Offline oakview

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Re: What can you tell me on the pedigree of this bull?
« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2010, 03:45:13 PM »
Sorry, I just thought you were interested in names.  I'll tell you briefly what I know about some of the names you've seen.  Equity's Pride goes back to MSF Equity 43rd, a former national champion promoted by Schrags and Cagwins mostly.  He goes back to a full Irish bull you'rve seen talked about here called IDS Duke of Dublin of Improver descent.  The Dream Lady family was made famous by Alden Farms and has spread throughout the breed.  They trace to Margie 924, one of my favorite all time Shorthorn females, a combination of American Milking Shorthorns and the Irish Shannon Margie.  AFK Powerplay was an outstanding bull of his day.  The Dreamboat bull you'll see sired some good cattle, but he had one of the highest BEPDs of his day.  Merle Welch once told me that if you had a cow that never had a good calf, breed her to Dreamboat and you'll get a good one.  I've only seen one picture of him, I'd recommend not looking at it.  Powerplay's mother, Bonnie Ruberta, was a daughter of Leader 18th, one of the truly top female sires, in my opinion.  I had a son of hers sired by Boris that was a pretty good bull.  Mill Brook Ransom G-9 appars, he was a very good show bull and sire for R. Lee Johnson and Sutherland Farms.  It has been suggested that he was 1/2 Maine, I don't know it that is true or not.  Regardless, he was a good bull.  JSF Lightfoot's High Five was raised by my good friend Jim Scott from Leon, Iowa.  His sire was from one of the best early Shorthorn flushes, combining Dividend with Farview Robin, founder of the Green Ridge Robin family.  Balllyart Snowflake appears in the pedigree, she was a show champion in Ireland and imported by Lazy D Farms in Missouri.  She is also the dam of the noteworthy Irish bull Lazy D HL Quane.  I went through the Lazy D calves in 1982 and narrowed my choice to Quane or Lazy Ultimate Type.  I picked Ultimate Type, a direct son of Deerpark Leader and out of Highfield Una 3rd.  The Snowflake cow was also sired by Deerpark Leader, but I thought Quane had a little more shoulder than I liked.  I'll post more later.

Offline oakview

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Re: What can you tell me on the pedigree of this bull?
« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2010, 03:56:15 PM »
Some more of what I know:  Nodak King's Tradition appears in the pedigree, the founder of the Lancer line, a noteworthy Milking Shorthorn line introduced into the beef herdbook in the 70s.  Waukaru First Lady is seen in the pedigree of a lot of today's cattle.  She was 1/2 milking shorthorn, going back to Hub's and Mysha breeding amoung others, and sired by GM Irish Special.  Irish Special also went back to the previously mentioned Ransom G-9.  I always liked his sire, Lazy D Irish Jack.  His Corofin mother was one of the good producing Irish cows imported.  Rodeo Drive's sire, RPS Tribune, was a good show bull in his day, maybe a little tall for today.  Mandalong Super Flag also appears in the pedigree.  He is one of the most commonly observed bulls in Canadian pedigrees today.  A lot of good breeding in the bull.  More could be said about many, but that's a brief outline of what I know, or at least what I think I know.  By the way, I like the color!

Offline outspoken

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Re: What can you tell me on the pedigree of this bull?
« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2010, 04:28:25 PM »
thank you for the short history lesson...  Seems to be quite a bit of older Milking Shorthorn bloodlines in there, along with plenty of imported stuff.  Of course, these genetics are plenty far back, that they are pretty well irrelevent.  

With three shots of one of the founder of one of the most prominant cow families of today's breed, you'd think this bull would be worth using just based off of pedigree alone.. cuz heck, isn't that the whole basis of Shorthorn breeding decisions anyways?  (lol) (clapping)

Seriously though, he's a not a bad calf.  We don't own him, but he is running with our cows as we speak.  Our prior bull went bad on us, I think this one can work out in the long run..  We'll see

Does anybody know anything about the Questing Hill Herd from IL?
« Last Edit: November 30, 2010, 04:29:02 PM by the truth »

Offline oakview

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Re: What can you tell me on the pedigree of this bull?
« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2010, 05:01:11 PM »
I think Questing Hills was owned by Edward and Aldyth Long.  I just can't seem to remember the bloodlines they used back in the 60s and 70s.  I'll check some of my old Shorthorn Worlds tonight if I have time.

Offline garybob

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Re: What can you tell me on the pedigree of this bull?
« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2010, 05:03:45 PM »
thank you for the short history lesson...  Seems to be quite a bit of older Milking Shorthorn bloodlines in there, along with plenty of imported stuff.  Of course, these genetics are plenty far back, that they are pretty well irrelevent.  

With three shots of one of the founder of one of the most prominant cow families of today's breed, you'd think this bull would be worth using just based off of pedigree alone.. cuz heck, isn't that the whole basis of Shorthorn breeding decisions anyways?  (lol) (clapping)

Seriously though, he's a not a bad calf.  We don't own him, but he is running with our cows as we speak.  Our prior bull went bad on us, I think this one can work out in the long run..  We'll see

Does anybody know anything about the Questing Hill Herd from IL?
Questing Hills is from Iowa, I thought, anyways.

GB

Online Doc

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Re: What can you tell me on the pedigree of this bull?
« Reply #9 on: November 30, 2010, 05:31:02 PM »
Questing Hills is from Iowa, I thought, anyways.

GB
[/quote]

GB, different QH farm. If I'm not mistaken, Cagwin was a herdsman for QH when he was younger. I'll agree with Oakview on Bonnie Ruberta. She was a tremendous cow & we purchased her in Merls' dispersal. We got along real well with progeny of her most famous dtr Bannie Rachel 83 that won the Jr Natl's one year. The bull has some other notables in his pedigree that I like , for example Cunia & HS Instant Enticer. Based on pedigree he has some strong genetics to back him up.
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enough to take everything you have.   -- Thomas Jefferson

Offline outspoken

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Re: What can you tell me on the pedigree of this bull?
« Reply #10 on: November 30, 2010, 06:17:28 PM »
I like several things about this bull...  I like his bone, hip, soundness, balance, length of body, etc...  I do not like his depth of body, circumference of forerib, or possession of head gear (horns). It may be age, or prior feeding program...  or it maybe genetic.. We had a daughter of the Heist Elite Leader bull, and she was about a frame 47, hard doing as hell. 

 I have only seen the bull a few times, it was a last min. kinda thing in getting him in with his cows.  I also realize that he's only a baby, and has been running a few cows all summer, and I don't know what his prior feeding system was like. 

He seems like a decent kinda bull to try out as cleanup for our AI program, with an interesting pedigree.

 

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