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Author Topic: What is everybody else witnessing?  (Read 1805 times)

Offline looking4champions

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What is everybody else witnessing?
« on: November 02, 2021, 07:09:47 PM »
From show to show, I'm noticing that "show steers" are not always winning shows.  More and more I'm seeing instances where big meaty calves with short necks and side profiles like the mystery machine are winning shows. What is everyone else seeing?
Ecclesiastes 9:4 "For to him that is joined to all the living there is hope: for a living dog is better than a dead lion.

Offline Dale

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Re: What is everybody else witnessing?
« Reply #1 on: November 04, 2021, 01:09:49 PM »
Is The Mystery Machine an AI bull?  What breed?  Since I do not use club calf sires (unless you count our Hot Commodity 1625 herd bull), I do not follow the sires that much.

At a recent sale I noticed that the majority of them including the Plus cattle had very big bodies; that body type usually does not have a freaky long neck.  These stout cattle were bred to be high-capacity and easy keepers. 

Offline mark tenenbaum

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Re: What is everybody else witnessing?
« Reply #2 on: November 04, 2021, 06:03:57 PM »
Some of them ARE FED to resemble  Then you see them later and wonder what happened  -the chase for belly seems like the new chase for long freaky fronts  O0

Offline shortybreeder

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Re: What is everybody else witnessing?
« Reply #3 on: November 06, 2021, 06:33:31 PM »
Is The Mystery Machine an AI bull?  What breed?  Since I do not use club calf sires (unless you count our Hot Commodity 1625 herd bull), I do not follow the sires that much.

At a recent sale I noticed that the majority of them including the Plus cattle had very big bodies; that body type usually does not have a freaky long neck.  These stout cattle were bred to be high-capacity and easy keepers.
I got a good little chuckle out of this, but I'm pretty sure he's referring to the van in Scooby-Doo

Offline Dale

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Re: What is everybody else witnessing?
« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2021, 07:08:32 PM »
Lol--thanks!  Our 4-yr.-old granddaughter even dressed as Scooby for Halloween, so I need to watch Scooby-Doo with her?

Offline looking4champions

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Re: What is everybody else witnessing?
« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2021, 08:36:25 PM »

[/quote]
I got a good little chuckle out of this, but I'm pretty sure he's referring to the van in Scooby-Doo
[/quote]

LOL, That's it! You got me.  I know every judge has their flavor.  It's just that when the selections start to lean too heavily to one side or the other. Something goes lacking.  Either one is heavy muscled and not attractive, or one is attractive and not finished. I always thought the top steers should be a combination of both worlds.  A stranger off the street can pick the biggest one, just as well as pick the prettiest one.  The judge is expected to and is tasked with selecting the one that's closest to ideal.  Just my opinion.  Just so happens I don't judge. If I do, I can tell you that's what I would be trying to do. 
Ecclesiastes 9:4 "For to him that is joined to all the living there is hope: for a living dog is better than a dead lion.

Offline mark tenenbaum

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Re: What is everybody else witnessing?
« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2021, 05:41:44 PM »
Im just gonna borrow my opinion from a thread further down Id gladly tell this judge to his face if I ever saw him-Dont care if the moronic  bufoon dumps any of mine or not "The quality shines through even at the most political arenas with the complete MORONS that ive seen judge lately Particularly the DOOFUS who judged the Cattlemans Congress last year-Every reason for every animal was a simple script that was probably handed to him by the assoc.-And was so dumb my 6 year old niece could beat him in a judging contest LOL " O0

Offline knabe

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Re: What is everybody else witnessing?
« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2021, 08:13:03 AM »
Fonzie jumping the shark.


i think the time that i showed and have watched other shows, i have wanted more time allocated to comments by the judges, but that is not practical.


this is what camps and paying people to help you are for.


in most regions, agriculture shows are dwindling in number and cattle are a huge cost that most people simply can't participate in that would have otherwise.


at some level, i would like to see a showmanship class or other class be more focused on getting participation numbers up and see the local families and others that always win be motivated to get participation up.


at some level, with all the outside pressures, vegan choices, PETA etc., that livestock industry needs to be more focused on it's presentation to someone besides the choir.


i don't know how that would be done, but commercials with someone other than cowboys would be great.


i.e., these guys.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0BFk6RdS1M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZRvRbzTU_c
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxO9GweZDEM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQLziiRjOAI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62c6AHh6qNY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUMSFG0mtJ4


it would be great if steerplanet could partner up with outlets like that.


focus less on posts about defects, terrible judges etc., and marketing showing and sales.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2021, 10:27:49 AM by knabe »
"The generation that told us to question authority, has now become the Authority we cannot question!"

Offline aj

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Re: What is everybody else witnessing?
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2021, 08:04:58 AM »
i judged on a college judging team 40 years ago. All I know once you compete in a contest and do 6 sets of reasons you are mentally exhausted. I would think that judging 150 head in one day would be the same. I guess giving reasons while looking at the animal would be easier though........rather than 4 hours later.
People can't believe we have such a big moon for such a small town.

Offline looking4champions

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Re: What is everybody else witnessing?
« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2021, 01:05:16 PM »
Im just gonna borrow my opinion from a thread further down Id gladly tell this judge to his face if I ever saw him-Dont care if the moronic  bufoon dumps any of mine or not "The quality shines through even at the most political arenas with the complete MORONS that ive seen judge lately Particularly the DOOFUS who judged the Cattlemans Congress last year-Every reason for every animal was a simple script that was probably handed to him by the assoc.-And was so dumb my 6 year old niece could beat him in a judging contest LOL " O0

You said it best!  "The quality shines through even at the most political arenas...."

You know it's sad when everyone is paying attention this this one particular steer, even the top jocks are watching..... Then the steer gets in the showring and places way down the line.  The when the show is over, random people are all saying the the steer should have placed higher.  That's it in so many words.  The quality shines through.

I agree, participation needs to increase.  Some families and people do it right, but there are some instances where you can just see these judges and shows are just wrong.

I'm a fan when the oral reasons help the audience to understand the judge's decision and when it reinforces the judge's consistency from class to class.  I just don't like it when the judge uses oral reasons to try to BS people to make the class fall out the way he wants, instead of the way everybody else in the arena can almost whole heartedly agree it could be.

In my opinion, a good judge usually has 1 or 2, that can maybe be swapped or go either way.  But if the class falls out just totally awkward.  I know he's junking his way through.

I agree about reaching to folks outside of the choir.  Not until then will things improve!!!
« Last Edit: November 10, 2021, 01:05:50 PM by looking4champions »
Ecclesiastes 9:4 "For to him that is joined to all the living there is hope: for a living dog is better than a dead lion.

Offline Steve123

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Re: What is everybody else witnessing?
« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2021, 02:27:14 PM »
I am as guilty as anyone about picking one out in the barn and thinking "there he is". Then when they are in the ring next to their piers you can really see the difference and think "nope". 

I always scratch my head when the judge starts dissing on the middle and bottom of the class with points I just don't see.

Offline knabe

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Re: What is everybody else witnessing?
« Reply #11 on: November 11, 2021, 09:28:23 AM »
if there are too many comments in the middle of the show one can't see, isn't that what people are looking for? judges taking the time to point things out?  maybe take notes and follow up with someone who can notice the differences.


when colleges showed (i don't know if they still do), we always took three types of steers, lightweights, mids and talls.  this was at the end of the era when the talls would still win once in a while.


during judging classes, the tall one kept winning, but then when we took the group to the shows, the heavy lightweight won. he would be considered heavy today.


after being in a slaughterhouse for extended periods of time taking photos of carcasses, it was pretty easy to see why the era of talls was over, and to me, really the 1400-1450 lb steers, which always seem to be the average ones, never extreme, are the ones that should be winning. the ones that are extreme in some phenotype, i.e., goose fronted or others, shouldn't be winning. since there is really no way to control for age, people just get them fat and hold them, now a new type of animal and handling emerged, yes, it existed back in college and before, but to me, it really takes people with a good understanding of who the "good" ones are that can be flexible for a period of time looking done as opposed to looking like that for a period of time and still look fresh.


these judges see all kinds of animals all over, so they have that advantage over us barn blind folks. they may make mistakes here and there, but overall, they do a good job.


i guess i find it funny that there is a request for comments about animals down in the classes to help exhibitors. not sure how judges are supposed to help exhibitors. they certainly can't be expected to give individual coaching sessions.


i guess the only thing i would complain about is the variability of birth dates and different people get animals started on feed, which leads to judges saying they like the animal but needs to be 200lbs heavier. works both ways, they could get too fat and won't breed, or they were stunted due to limited feed and everything in between.  i guess i'd like to see less emphasis on fat breeding animals that are looking more and more like fats and then disappear.
"The generation that told us to question authority, has now become the Authority we cannot question!"

Offline Tallcool1

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Re: What is everybody else witnessing?
« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2021, 12:44:57 PM »
It's an illusion.

These things are getting SO stout again.  The Champion and Reserve in KC appeared to kinda fit what you are saying, built low to the ground, not real pretty necked, etc.  Then I searched out some pictures of those 2 from earlier in the season.  They were both long necked really good looking prospects.  They just matured into really stout fat steers.

Another thing that adds to this is the willingness of judges to use steers that are +1400 pounds. At a weight card show, that is a 1500 pound steer.  They are mature and thick necked when they get to that weight. 

I admittedly have not been out to as many shows as I used to attend.  From what I have seen, I believe it is an illusion and not a reality.  I could be wrong.

 

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