Why Dont Show Heifers Dont Make Good Cows?

Both, the pedigree that is stacked with generations of cows, not just terminal show females.  The kind that have proven themselves in the pasture to be fertile, easy fleshing sound for years, not just a couple of calveing seasons.  milking mommas, that have good foot structure, don't need to be trimmed or hardly ever, can wear off any extra foot growth.  They can lay down and have a healthy calf without worry.  Take care of that calf in a harsh environment, not just insde the show barn or in the calving pen.  Pheonotype can only tell you so much about how they are going to do these things.  The look of that big soft hip, not a huge sharp hard calving hip.  Depth of rib and overall shape of that rib, not just a slab sidded tight skinned kinda cow.  Sound off both ends, not just sound enuff but truely cool to watch like they almost grab at the ground with their toes and and float across the pasture with ease in big strides that can only be imagined by your average club calf breader.  You know, MATERNAL.

I think Jacob B hit the nail on the head.  I do believe there is a tendency for show heifers not to make good cows, not because they are or where a "show" heifer, but because of why they were selected or purchased as a "show" heifer.  What are the characteristics most people look @ when selecting a show heifer?: 1.  Phenotype 2.  Frame Score & Mass - usually a notch bigger & more powerul than what a real productive mama starts out as 3. Flesh on feed
On the other hand, once you've been around a while and had enough dissapointing calves and wrecks, if you're going out to select future mama cows you're probably looking @:1.  Genetics/pedigree - production history of dam & sire 2. Phenotype 3. Frame Score & Mass - usually a notch more moderate & not as powerful as a dominant show heifer 4. Fleshing ability while not on grain
So the truly great females (the ones worth spending high $'s on & the actual "donor prospects") are the ones that work both in the ring & then have the genetic ability to produce &  raise,  marketable competitive calves themselves. 

Zach said:

Show Heifer said:

In typical cattle management, many, many many show heifers do not make good cows.... they are usually too fat, too spoiled, too hairy.

In many "show herds" where they get the spoiled treatment and where calves are creep fed from day 20 and momma's milk isn't all that important, then yes, some show heifers do just fine.

Many times it is management that dictates the success of failure of an individual animal.... if you treat a show heifer as a show heifer for her entire life, then yes, they will be fine... if you treat them as a commercial cow then no, probably not. Exceptions to every rule, but they are just that.

My follow up question is along the same lines: Why do I hear in show barns "She can't feed her calf, but sure has good ones, so we flushed her 10 times"  (or a variation of such) or "She can't have her own calves, but her genetics are superb" (or a variation of such)   Or, "She hasn't had/raised a calf in years...because we flush her" (or a variation of such). Some show heifers actually NEVER give birth or raise a calf on their own. How can that be a good thing?
Seems to me, these statements support the fact that show heifers do not make good cows....

Guess we could pick on bulls too.....

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The only person to dictate on whether its a good thing or not is the owner him self. If I had a world champion heifer ( steer producer, mind you) and she had a knock out calf but didn't milk enough to feed a kitty cat, no doubt i would flush her and put the embryos in cows who could raise a calf. Show Cattle =/= Commercial cattle. I'm talking like the HW mommas out there. Purebred cattle are a different matter in my book.

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You made my point Zach. In MY opinion a good cow is one that can raise her own calf. Maybe THAT is the difference between the "show world" and "commercial world". A commercial guy would never put up with a cow that couldn't raise a calf on her own.  In the show world it is almost something that is irrelevant.
But I guess ultimately, a "good cow" is one that pays the bills!!

Show Heifer said:

Zach said:

Show Heifer said:

In typical cattle management, many, many many show heifers do not make good cows.... they are usually too fat, too spoiled, too hairy.

In many "show herds" where they get the spoiled treatment and where calves are creep fed from day 20 and momma's milk isn't all that important, then yes, some show heifers do just fine.

Many times it is management that dictates the success of failure of an individual animal.... if you treat a show heifer as a show heifer for her entire life, then yes, they will be fine... if you treat them as a commercial cow then no, probably not. Exceptions to every rule, but they are just that.

My follow up question is along the same lines: Why do I hear in show barns "She can't feed her calf, but sure has good ones, so we flushed her 10 times"  (or a variation of such) or "She can't have her own calves, but her genetics are superb" (or a variation of such)   Or, "She hasn't had/raised a calf in years...because we flush her" (or a variation of such). Some show heifers actually NEVER give birth or raise a calf on their own. How can that be a good thing?
Seems to me, these statements support the fact that show heifers do not make good cows....

Guess we could pick on bulls too.....

Click to expand...

The only person to dictate on whether its a good thing or not is the owner him self. If I had a world champion heifer ( steer producer, mind you) and she had a knock out calf but didn't milk enough to feed a kitty cat, no doubt i would flush her and put the embryos in cows who could raise a calf. Show Cattle =/= Commercial cattle. I'm talking like the HW mommas out there. Purebred cattle are a different matter in my book.

Click to expand...

You made my point Zach. In MY opinion a good cow is one that can raise her own calf. Maybe THAT is the difference between the "show world" and "commercial world". A commercial guy would never put up with a cow that couldn't raise a calf on her own.  In the show world it is almost something that is irrelevant.
But I guess ultimately, a "good cow" is one that pays the bills!!

Click to expand...

<beer> <beer> <beer>

Millbrookshortys said:

We have had good luck with our show heifers making good cows, however we have had many calving problems when it comes to getting that first calf out of them.

And Lola big udders aren't always a good thiing.

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For my cow it is. It only grow when she has milk, I check her whenever were thinking she's bred. She's also a good mother that has no problem calving. She is a good cow for an ex-show heifer.

We haven't run into any trouble yet, but we probably don't get them as fat as some do + we breed them on schedule with the rest of their mates (around 14 months).

In 2004 I kept 2 good heifer calves in the lot, turned their mothers out in the pasture during the day, let them in at night, and fed  Purina Show Chow to the calves, some grain to the cows, all with the goal of developing two good show heifers.  We showed one of them at the Winter Beef Expo the next February.  She was pretty good and plenty big, as big or bigger than any in the class, and placed third.  Considering the competition in the March heifer class in Iowa, that was darn good.  We continued to push the Show Chow and the heifer continued to do well.  In late June, just in time for our county fair, the heifer began to develop an udder.  She was cycling, but did not stick AI.  The county fair was in mid July, and by that time the heifer looked to be within a week of calving, but still not bred.  She finally stuck to the bull and calved in June or July of the next year.  Her udder was terrible and she didn't milk a lick.  Her mother and three sisters have excellent udders and milk well.  Even though I have a college degree I could figure out what the problem was.  I know someone will tell me we just got the heifer too fat.  That is true.  She was too fat, but she was no where near as fat as most of the show heifers of today.  She lost a set of twins the next year, was injured during the process, and never rebred.  $1,000 in show feed, no calves, but a third place ribbon from the Winter Beef Expo.  Like I said, I've got a college education.

Higher expectations.... when you have a common replacement heifer not turn into a good cow nobody cries... you cull her and move on... but that heifer that put banners on the wall you expect her to raise the best calve you've ever had and when she don't... well it's easy to get disgusted. If you raise them right and have reasonable expectations they turn out just fine.  Honestly our show heifers don't see a bit of grain after we breed them. We turn them out to pasture they spend the summer learning to be cows and when they calve in the fall they are good to go. It's nice when she nicks and makes a good one but don't expect her to replace her momma first calf out thats pretty unreasonable. 

Everyone of our show heifers go on to be a cow.  There would be no other reason for us to have them otherwise.    Some make better cows than others but then the same thing happens with our commercial heifers becoming cows.  After they are done being shown, they go into the herd & run with the commercials and others.  We don't feed them special, just treat them like a cow.    THeir calves wean right with the rest - unless we pull their calf early to get it halter broke & show ready.    The only one we have ever had a problem with was my daughter's heifer from a couple years ago..  her first calf was  a DUD.  He was a complete dink, the cow did not milk worth a hoot as a first calf heifer..  We even talked to her about selling her  but by that time, she'd already been AI'd to Dream On & he was dead..  so we kept her..    Her calving interval is 11 months..  her Dream On bull calf is FANTASTIC.  He is growing like a weed and might be the best bull we've ever raised.    She bred right back and to my knowledge has not been back in.   

In my showing experience our show heifers have seen problems with fertility and production come first calving. Since we do very little AI'ing, the summer shows limit the time they are exposed to the bull and they sometimes don't catch until after the summer show season. Usually they will catch up to the rest of the herd in a few years with regards to calving time, but its still a nuisance. As well, its just a fact that if you overfeed a young heifer, more fat tissue forms in her udder and takes the place of mammary glands; which of course reduces milk production.
Having said that, there are always those exceptional cows that will do you good both in the pasture and in the show ring!

so just raise em up like a normal show heifer but try not to make her too fat?

Zach said:

Show Heifer said:

In typical cattle management, many, many many show heifers do not make good cows.... they are usually too fat, too spoiled, too hairy.

In many "show herds" where they get the spoiled treatment and where calves are creep fed from day 20 and momma's milk isn't all that important, then yes, some show heifers do just fine.

Many times it is management that dictates the success of failure of an individual animal.... if you treat a show heifer as a show heifer for her entire life, then yes, they will be fine... if you treat them as a commercial cow then no, probably not. Exceptions to every rule, but they are just that.

My follow up question is along the same lines: Why do I hear in show barns "She can't feed her calf, but sure has good ones, so we flushed her 10 times"  (or a variation of such) or "She can't have her own calves, but her genetics are superb" (or a variation of such)   Or, "She hasn't had/raised a calf in years...because we flush her" (or a variation of such). Some show heifers actually NEVER give birth or raise a calf on their own. How can that be a good thing?
Seems to me, these statements support the fact that show heifers do not make good cows....

Guess we could pick on bulls too.....

Click to expand...

The only person to dictate on whether its a good thing or not is the owner him self. If I had a world champion heifer ( steer producer, mind you) and she had a knock out calf but didn't milk enough to feed a kitty cat, no doubt i would flush her and put the embryos in cows who could raise a calf. Show Cattle =/= Commercial cattle. I'm talking like the HW mommas out there. Purebred cattle are a different matter in my book.

Click to expand...

In my opinion, this is exactly why commerical cattlemen make the statement "show heifer don't make good cows"  when those embryos are born and raised someone is going to get one in their herd and find out the milking is horrible.  "World champion heifer" in the show ring has to produce on the farm. 
This being said it the same thing on whether a female can walk or not.  If they are straight and strike short, then they are not going have a long productive life in the pasture. 
The commerical cattleman should look at the "show cattle" purbred or cross and be able to take any of them home and make them produce for him/her.  They might have to wait a little while on the heifer condition before turning her out with the other cows or slick shear her, but that's all minor when you look at the big picture.  Can the heifer raise and calf and become a cow?, and the answer should be YES every time on any female.  If the answer is not yes, then that breeding show be done away with.