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Offline Show Heifer

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Protocol for Vaccinations
« on: March 29, 2007, 09:16:17 PM »
Spring time is here and that has me wondering about a new vaccination program. ???

My calving season is kinda spread out from Mar 1 to June 25. I keep replacement heifers. I don't bring anything into the herd, but do have neighbors that have NO vaccination program.  I have heard a lot of Bovi-Gold for both cows and calves. But is it a modified live and I am confused as to what to give it to, when to give it, and if it will affect pregnant cows. Can I give it to pregnant cows? Can I run the vaccinated cows with the pregnant cows?
Can I give it to little calves? How young? And when do I re-vaccinate them?
What about that new harjeo (sp) lepto virus?
I know this is a lot to ask, but holy buckets it gets confusing!!! (:)) (that would be ME!!)
I always pour with Ivomec, and vacc for pinkeye, fly tag and Duraset pour on. Am I missing something?

Thanks all.  :)
You had tthe right not display your lack of command of the english language. Too bad you have chosen not to. - Brit, senior student

Offline red

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Re: Protocol for Vaccinations
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2007, 06:18:11 AM »
good question Show Hef! I've been thinking along the same lines too. I always worry that we're not up-to-date enough on all the new things & best information. You can read as much as you can but you still feel your missing something. Then when something pops up in your herd, you kick yourself for not being on top of it all.
I asked a question about tetnaus shots. when do you give them? For banding, castrations, dehorning & what else?
Thanks for any & all feedback!!!

Red
"People don't care how much you know until they know how much you care"
" Some succeed because they are destined to,
but most succeed because they are determined to."
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Offline Show Heifer

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Re: Protocol for Vaccinations
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2007, 07:16:22 AM »
When I band my lambs, I give CD & T AND tetanus Antitoxin. Then in 3-4 weeks I booster the CD & T.
My thinking is that the CD & T  (Which is tetanus toxoid, not antitoxin) will give protection after 7 days, and the Antitoxin will give immediate protection up to 7 days.  And hey, both shots are pretty inexpensive so why not!! ;D
You had tthe right not display your lack of command of the english language. Too bad you have chosen not to. - Brit, senior student

Offline DL

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Re: Protocol for Vaccinations
« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2007, 01:50:52 PM »
At long last, hopefully an informed discussion of vaccinations. I sent this originally to chambero about a specific question he had, but I think it sort of covers the basics. That said your vaccination program should be tailored to your specific program, management, geography etc - there is no recipe for vaccinations for everyone to follow...You need to weigh the risk and cost of the (potential) disease with the risk and cost of the vaccination. For example, I sell cattle to eastern Ohio and Pennsylvania - raccoon rabies is an issue here as well as NY, Mass etc - I vaccinate all my cows for rabies. Rabies is much less of an issue in other areas - so the cost is likely not worth it to most producers in other areas. Bang's vaccine - no longer required, but if you are selling cattle to certain states (ND) you must have your females vaccinated and the entire tattoo must be readable - otherwise they can't enter the state! :(  Also your buying habits will influence your program - closed herd? (I mean closed, no one in; nada; zip) probably doesn't need to be as aggressive as a herd with cattle moving in and out like a mall!

1. There are generally 2 components to the 4 or 5 or 6 way vaccines - viral and bacterial. When they talk about modified live they are generally referring to viral components (the rare exceptions to this is the Bang's vaccine which is made from live culture and can cause disease in your veterinarian!)
2. Modified live vaccines give better immunity than killed - so in my mind it is important to give your youngstock modified live vaccines and boosters (however, see below)
3. The "danger" to giving pregnant cows modified live vaccines (if they have not been previously vaccinated with that product within the previous 12 months and that in itself is a sticky wicket) is abortion, primarily IBR, but also probably BVD - this is a real danger
4. The "danger" associated with vaccinating calves still on the cow is also abortion  - this is more of a theoretical danger in many cases because the virus is not shed by the calf so the dam would not pick it up - however, most companies have not spent the time or money to prove that the virus is not shed. Pfizer has a study that demonstrates that the virus is not shed (another company as well but I can't remember who) but they have not as yet applied to have the label changed - so basically using BoviShield in calves nursing cows is off label for the vaccine (this may be only a liability issue - I am not sure)
5. All that said I vaccinate all my calves while on the cow with BoviShield - however, all my cows are vaccinated at least 1 time per year with Cattlemaster and received 2 doses of BoviShield as calves
6. I would not use BoviShield on the calves if you have cows that were never vaccinated - it is probably only a theoretical risk but if it turns out to be a real risk you have no recourse
7. If you have never vaccinated your cows I would not only vaccinated them with Cattlemaster but booster it in 2 to 4 weeks - you would probably not need lepto on the booster dose.
8. If you were to vaccinate the calves with Cattlemaster they would need to be boostered in 2 to 4 weeks and I would probably hit them again 2 weeks prior to shipping; you wouldn't need the lepto for the feeders
9.You can get Pasturella (I'd have to look up exactly what it is/what company) as a separate vaccine to add to (not literally) you calf vaccination program
10. The sticky wicket deal on using modified live vaccines on pregnant cows revolves around (in my mind) making sure every cow got a dose when open and that it worked etc - if cows come in and out - it can get to be a real mess - I don't use the program and neither do my clients - the modified live vaccines are significantly cheaper than killed
11. A lot of the feedlots and bull tests are requiring Pasturrella vaccines in addition to the respiratory viral vaccines - the Pastuerella vaccines are not really very efficacious
12. The general belief is that the immunity from the lepto in the L5 vaccines is short lived - some are recommending that dairies that have lepto problems vaccinate 3 or 4 times per year!  :o
13. Lepto hardjo bovis (which is not in the L5 combo) is a relatively new bug - the difference between it and other leptos is that the cow is the primary host for hardjo bovis - the bug lives in the cows kidneys and is spewed into the environment for the unsuspecting bovine to ingest - so it is spread from cow to cow and caused abortion and other repro issues. For the other leptos the cow is an incidental host.
14. In some areas where Black leg and other clostridial diseases are a big issue annual vaccination with clostridial vaccine is mandatory. Many producers in MI don't vaccinate for clostridial diseases.
15. Many vaccines now say they are fetal protective for BVD PI and contain both type I and type II BVD - this is a good idea.
16. Cattle as a species are pretty resistant to tetanus - some people use tetanus toxoid when they band, some tetanus anti toxin, some both - if it works for you I wouldn't change it! Since the tetanus bug (CLostridium tetani) like all Clostridial organisms likes to live in an environment with low to zero oxygen, any time you have this kind of environment (deep puncture, some uterine infections, banded scrotum etc) think about tetanus
17. There are a billiion cattle vaccines - pick a couple and learn all about them!
17.  Vaccines are not a band aid for bad management, bad nutrition, or bad karma

thought this might spur some discussion.......let the games begin! dl
(cow) (cow) (clapping) (cow) (cow)
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Offline red

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Re: Protocol for Vaccinations
« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2007, 03:56:03 PM »
Excellent DL! I printed it out for myself!
Thank you as usual!

Red
"People don't care how much you know until they know how much you care"
" Some succeed because they are destined to,
but most succeed because they are determined to."
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Offline Show Heifer

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Re: Protocol for Vaccinations
« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2007, 04:34:17 PM »
THANK YOU!!  (clapping) (clapping)
So my discussion:
Do you prefer Cattlemaster to the BoviGold FP products?
I have vaccinated my cows before with both cattlemaster, and killed (tri-preg 9 - killed) in different years, but they get vaccinated every year. Calves also get vaccinated with appropiate vacc.
So does that include them in the "never vaccinated" cow group? Or is that for cows that have NEVER had any vaccinations?
Also, I plan on AI'ing first part of June....so should I allow 30 days for recovery?
I plan on using Bovi-gold on my cows, and calves, but was told my calves will look like crap for about 2 weeks after vaccinating due to the virus.  :-\True????
EEEEKKKKK....so confusing! :o :o
You had tthe right not display your lack of command of the english language. Too bad you have chosen not to. - Brit, senior student

Offline DL

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Re: Protocol for Vaccinations
« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2007, 08:21:16 PM »
OK, me again, I like Pfizer products - I think you need to know a few products real well and use them - I certainly can't keep up with all the different vaccines

Cattlemaster products are basically the "killed" vaccines safe for use in pregnant cows - more expensiive and not as immunogenic (ie don't stimulate as great an immune response as modified live products do)

BoviShield is basically the modified live product - not to be used in pregnant cows unless they were vaccinated with the same product within the past 12 months

If you have a short calving interval and good records you can vaccinate your cows after calving but before breeding with BoviShield and then use it annually - I personally find that too confusing

Never vacccinated means naiive - never ever

I have never had an issue with calves looking like crap for 2 weeks after vaccinating with BoviShield - in fact they barely notice; make sure you booster the calves

Does that help?

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Offline Show Heifer

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Re: Protocol for Vaccinations
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2007, 08:10:56 AM »
Yep, that helps!
But now am wondering, do I need to go the bovi-gold route, or stay with the cattlemaster???
AARRRGGGG!
You had tthe right not display your lack of command of the english language. Too bad you have chosen not to. - Brit, senior student

Offline red

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Re: Protocol for Vaccinations
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2007, 08:15:49 AM »
Show Hef- I'm going to send you some yoga (not yogi Just me) tapes. Deep breaths, imagine a field of daisy's- oh no the cows have gotten out & are eating the daisy's! Forget that then! (lol) ::)
I've been going over our vaccination program too. I've always left it up to the boys but after the PCN reaction, I'm getting really paranoid!

Red
"People don't care how much you know until they know how much you care"
" Some succeed because they are destined to,
but most succeed because they are determined to."
www.redmaplemaines.com

Offline DL

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Re: Protocol for Vaccinations
« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2007, 09:23:14 AM »
Yep, that helps!
But now am wondering, do I need to go the bovi-gold route, or stay with the cattlemaster???
AARRRGGGG!

OK what I do because I am easily confused is all calves get BoviShield and they get boostered and then the ones I keep get boostered again like in December.

All the cows get Cattlemaster - usually twice a year (spring and fall)

I use the FP with BVD 1 and II

Every one gets Spirovac and everyone gets 5L

Everyone gets Rabies

All calves get Alpha 7

All heifers get RB51 (Bangs)

Everyone I keep gets boostered with Ultra 7

Don't use a bull, don't need Vibrio

Don't have problem with scours, pneumonia or pinkeye - don't vaccinate for them

that is the plan but like I said sometimes I get confused! And remember you are looking (in general) for herd immunity! Also for rabies ( this would be individual immunity) if you feel the need to do it because it is a regulatory disease you vaccinating your own cows or horses for rabies is not considered sufficient should there be a question of rabies and your cow or horse bit someone (same deal as with dogs!)

raining here - mud for sale!
Going to church doesn't make you a christian any more than standing in a garage makes you a car

 

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