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Offline rackranch

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AI Suggestions For Moderate Shorthorn Plus??
« on: September 11, 2013, 02:30:25 PM »
I'm looking for a bull to use on this moderate Shorthorn plus heifer.  She is a Thriller (Ali X Heatwave/who) daughter out of a registered shorty.  My original thought was to try and use something that I could paper if she had a heifer but I really don't know if there is a Shorthorn I would like on her.  I need something with low birth weight and a lot of grow to and power.  She is probably a 3.5 frame score.  Someone suggested a Simmy bull Grizzly but I'm open to Angus, Simmy, Shorty, are whatever but think I need pure bred.

I just had a good luck with Mr. Driven on a Monopoly heifer and I've heard he has a lot of grow to his calves. Open to suggestion from people with experience using the bull they mention.

Thanks..
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Offline rackranch

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Re: AI Suggestions For Moderate Shorthorn Plus??
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2013, 02:42:23 PM »
Forgot to mention she is free both ways
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Offline DL

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Re: AI Suggestions For Moderate Shorthorn Plus??
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2013, 04:24:10 PM »
I'm looking for a bull to use on this moderate Shorthorn plus heifer.  She is a Thriller (Ali X Heatwave/who) daughter out of a registered shorty.  My original thought was to try and use something that I could paper if she had a heifer but I really don't know if there is a Shorthorn I would like on her.  I need something with low birth weight and a lot of grow to and power.  She is probably a 3.5 frame score.  Someone suggested a Simmy bull Grizzly but I'm open to Angus, Simmy, Shorty, are whatever but think I need pure bred.

I just had a good luck with Mr. Driven on a Monopoly heifer and I've heard he has a lot of grow to his calves. Open to suggestion from people with experience using the bull they mention.

Thanks..

Well you basically have a cross bred heifer who happens to have the clubby creator of the worlds smallest pelvis Heat Wave in her pedigree. I would only consider a high accuracy calving ease bull - my preference would be Red Angus but certainly there would be some of high accuracy in other breeds - and by high accuracy I mean > 85 or 90% which basically means an older bull. I would also think that a live calf and live heifer would be more important than "growth and power". I would pay little attention to the BW of the bull or the BW EPD but more attention to the CE EPD. You might also consider this heifer is not really moderate framed - if she truly is a 3.5 frame score she is short - some of the high accuracy CE Red Angus bulls tend to increase frame score (ie Leachman Above and Beyond) where as Becktons bulls (Nebula) will likely not change frame score. Actually Buffalo Creek Hobo 1961 would be a great choice if you could get it. FWIW
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Offline Freddy

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Re: AI Suggestions For Moderate Shorthorn Plus??
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2013, 04:36:40 PM »
I agree with DL get that first calf in good shape and heifer will breed back easily and then set up a program to make money with her ....When I saw the SHORTHORN PLUS my wheels started turning because have seen some super CHAR X  calves with this combination and know you do good job with your cattle ..We use bulls we have raised a lot of times on heifer's cause we know what to expect from them, EPD'S ARE ACCURATTE  on older proven bulls but on young bulls people manipulate them to look good till there proven other wise ,also on clubby young bull's your chance of getting good semen is also very IFFYY...../   Pick a good easy calving bull with some maternal traits and might have you a replacement heifer ...

Offline frostback

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Re: AI Suggestions For Moderate Shorthorn Plus??
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2013, 05:20:51 PM »
Not going to make a suggestion for her first time, but would love to see Full Flush or a son on her after, if is she is that small framed.
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Offline rackranch

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Re: AI Suggestions For Moderate Shorthorn Plus??
« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2013, 05:21:34 PM »
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Offline Freddy

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Re: AI Suggestions For Moderate Shorthorn Plus??
« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2013, 05:43:02 PM »
I guess I'm not following you to good , the NEW STANDARD bull is son of 1407 which has that new defect in the Angus ....Not sure if NEW STANDARD HAS THIS DEFECT, BUT KNOW 1407 & 036 do and there is getting to be so many Angus defects can't keep up with them...He is a dam good choice otherwise ....
« Last Edit: September 11, 2013, 05:54:30 PM by Freddy »

Offline DL

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Re: AI Suggestions For Moderate Shorthorn Plus??
« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2013, 05:55:17 PM »
Something along these lines?


http://www.bovine-elite.com/angblkepd2.asp?idProduct=2270&id2nd=35


The EPDs are AOK but the bull is a DD carrier

http://abs-bs.absglobal.com/beef/angus.asp?CodTouro=29AR0183
this bull will give you great females, beautiful udders, sound cattle and will increase frame score, but will give up bone and some growth

http://abs-bs.absglobal.com/beef/angus.asp?CodTouro=29AR0231
will likely not increase frame score much but will give you calving ease, growth and breeding cattle that are sound, appealing - Beckton cows average 1200 lbs over decades so don't expect big

this bull - if you can find him - makes great females, has no major faults and would increase frame  RAAA #307777 good choices (like bad ones) are without limit  ;)
« Last Edit: September 11, 2013, 05:56:28 PM by DL »
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Offline Davidsonranch

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Re: AI Suggestions For Moderate Shorthorn Plus??
« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2013, 06:23:06 PM »
My votes, which don't mean a lot :)
Shorty:  Captain Obvious
Simmy:  WLE Uno Mas
Red Angus:  Fat Tony

A live calf is the true goal. 

Offline Freddy

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Re: AI Suggestions For Moderate Shorthorn Plus??
« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2013, 07:06:11 PM »
You probably have the semen for MR. DRIVEN and he worked before and is main goal is to get a good calf and we could argue all night about what worked the best for us ...
Lot's of good calving ease bulls out there , just wasn't sure about that Angus ...

Offline CRS

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Re: AI Suggestions For Moderate Shorthorn Plus??
« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2013, 08:07:01 PM »
We have had good luck with a bull of Bob Agle's, Pulse. He was on display at Ohio Beef Expo in 2012. Semen is of great quality and he makes great females being a Total Solution x Meyer/Angus. We have posted some pics on here earlier this year.
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Offline Cardinal_Crest_Shorthorns

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Re: AI Suggestions For Moderate Shorthorn Plus??
« Reply #11 on: September 11, 2013, 08:54:25 PM »
Sounds like there have already been a lot of good suggestions. We raise shorthorns and for the most part make it our policy not to use shorthorn bulls on our heifers (something I hope can eventually change), but we like to play it safe. I agree with Angus or Red Angus for the first go around.

Offline Medium Rare

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Re: AI Suggestions For Moderate Shorthorn Plus??
« Reply #12 on: September 11, 2013, 08:58:49 PM »
I just walked in from pulling a dead ~90lb calf from a moderate framed first calf heifer who was AI'd to a Red Angus bull with a 61lb birth weight and a CED in the top 3%, so this should be interesting...

Just about every time I've played with commercial dinks we lost time and money.  All fall we'd look at them thinking "what the hell are we going to do with her".  We'd always justify keeping them around with "she won too many classes to cull" and/or "that pedigree is a cash machine right now".  About the time your arm hits the pelvis when breeding you're staring at the guy thawing semen thinking "this isn't going to work".  The next spring you're cussing at each other while strapping the puller to her hips hoping she doesn't go down for a 2-3 week long lifting marathon while bottle feeding her runt.  It didn't matter what we bred them to, Who and Double stuff heifers were my nightmare making machines for a couple years. 

You're staring at a 3.5 framed cross with Heatwave & Who lurking in the weeds while looking to add frame and power.  Honestly, I'd let someone else figure out how to get her to produce a taller beefier calf. Admitting defeat is never easy, but sometimes we have to take a step back and ask ourselves if what we're trying to do even makes sense.

If you're convinced a 3.5 framed cross is something you want to throw time and money at you could always throw some Longhorn or Dexter at her and give the neighbors something else to talk about. If she makes it back for another round next year, shoot for the moon. 
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Offline DL

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Re: AI Suggestions For Moderate Shorthorn Plus??
« Reply #13 on: September 11, 2013, 09:17:16 PM »
I just walked in from pulling a dead ~90lb calf from a moderate framed first calf heifer who was AI'd to a Red Angus bull with a 61lb birth weight and a CED in the top 3%, so this should be interesting...

Sorry about your calf but out of curiosity who was the bull and what is your heifer

Fat Tony is not a heifer bull and his accuracy is low

Every time you breed a bovine it is a gamble
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Offline Medium Rare

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Re: AI Suggestions For Moderate Shorthorn Plus??
« Reply #14 on: September 11, 2013, 10:20:13 PM »
Sorry about your calf but out of curiosity who was the bull and what is your heifer

I have a sample size of one, so I'd rather not name the bull yet.  There are at least 40 more heifers to calve to him in the next few days so it'll sort itself out soon enough.  She's out of a Red Angus bull with an 81lb birth weight, negative BW EPD, and a CED ranking around 50%. Her momma was a ranch bred commercial RA x Simmy, most likely 75/25, with no clubby genetics in her.

 

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