ASK OLDHORN A QUESTION

yuppiecowboy · Nov 27, 2010

I am blessed to have the knowledge every day from a man who was there. Tried to buy Leader 21. Told Les Mathers to suck it back in 52.

If you want to know about the real history of the shorthorn breed, ask now and i will make sure Oldhorn answers.

Okotoks · Nov 27, 2010

I would like to know what Oldhorn feels in retrospect Shorthorn breeders should have done when confronted with the need to increase performance and size in the 1960's. Shorthorns definitely did that but a lot of cattle and bloodlines totally disapeared. Was the Melbourne herd on the right track with the Remitall Captain Jim's or Colomeadow with their Cornerstone bull?
Thanks for the opportunity to ask someone who was there!

aj · Nov 27, 2010

Did the commercial cattle people really use the belt buckle cattle anyway. Weren't the belt buckle cattle just a showring deal and thought to be a joke anyway on say the Wyoming ranges? I have heard of bigger framed Shorthorns in the 20,30,and 40's.

knabe · Nov 27, 2010

who did ribeye size disappear with?

did anyone care about type of marbling

what lines had high butterfat content?

did anyone worry when numbers started to go down?

mark tenenbaum · Nov 27, 2010

Did Oldhorn Know Harry Mcann?-who untill he passed in the mid 90s (at close to 100)-was the oldest shorthorn breeder and I believe cattleman in the Us. Their shorthorns originated from some of the original importations in the 19 th century-and when I hauled him around-he told me about train trips with Albert Hultine and seeing the International in the early 1900s-I think Leemons pretty well have been around the show deal the longest at this point. O0

trevorgreycattleco · Nov 27, 2010

If oldhorn was starting over today what would he do? Where would he go to get bulls? Cows?
Would he play the registered games we play or just breed cattle to sell to the commercial places or by the pound?
What does he think are the most important contributions a shorthorn female can bring to a commercial operation?
What did they do back in the day that made them so popular?
Why do they have such a bad rap these days?

Enough for now. (pop)

aj · Nov 27, 2010

I'm not sure where this thread is headed but I was looking through the latest country today. It just seems like the state fair winner photos all look kinda like the old white chi's. Not early maturing enough. Big framed with no depth of rib. It almost seems like the breed gets hung up on bloodlines. Then a bull shows up that looks a little better....a little different.....but they breed the same ole way cause everybody uses the same ole bloodlines. It just seems like to me we need to knock some frame off the cattle and put some gut on the cattle. But thats not sexy so the showring people won't go there. jmo

mark tenenbaum · Nov 27, 2010

aj said:
I'm not sure where this thread is headed but I was looking through the latest country today. It just seems like the state fair winner photos all look kinda like the old white chi's. Not early maturing enough. Big framed with no depth of rib. It almost seems like the breed gets hung up on bloodlines. Then a bull shows up that looks a little better....a little different.....but they breed the same ole way cause everybody uses the same ole bloodlines. It just seems like to me we need to knock some frame off the cattle and put some gut on the cattle. But thats not sexy so the showring people won't go there. jmo//// Need to do domething with the birthwts too-the maines are becoming the most balanced cattle I see around-along with some of the simm-etcs.I think some of the older so-called club bulls *before D-Stuff_would be just about right now,clean,and certainly easier calving JMO

yuppiecowboy · Nov 27, 2010

" I thought Latimers had the right type of cattle, and if we would have stayed that way, their bloodlines can still be found found in pedigrees if you go back far enough.Colomeadow carcass issues got lost in the shuffle when the exotics came in You Canadian breeders are on the right track, those are the cattle we had once upon a time and lost somewhere on the way"

yuppiecowboy · Nov 27, 2010

"The belt buckle cattle were developed by people who made money in the war and had no place to spend it so they started paying games with non functional cattle. The people on the range had to make a living with what paid their bills and they stayed with that type."

yuppiecowboy · Nov 27, 2010

What numbers Knabe?

I bought the highest ribeye scanned bull in history back in 1970. He was long, he was thick and he was stout. And nobody gave a shit because he wasnt a frame score 7.

Nobody cared about numbers back then. The only numbers were 205 weight and cannon bone length

yuppiecowboy · Nov 27, 2010

" Mark, I did not know harry, but I did know Albert Hultine. He and Fred Blomstrom of Nebraska and also Scott Leemon's grandfather were good cattlemen and I am proud to say they were my friends."

yuppiecowboy · Nov 27, 2010

" If a gun were held to my head and and I had to do it all over again, I would go to the same place I went in the 60s. I bought Gloriadale Constructor with Leanord Bigham ( Elbees Dad) and Ralph Stirm. He wouldnt freeze semen and Kansas and Brandon Iowa are are fair parcel between, so the Herdsman at Gloriadale, who had became a good friend, set me up with Gloriadale Count. If I would have collected him I would still be using him today.

The Canadian cattle by and large, are my kind.

Gordon and Fulton were cattlemen I respected and enjoyed the friendship of. I doubt that a Kenmar or Kinnabear cow from 1950 looks much different than a Kenmar or Kinnabear cow of 2010."

yuppiecowboy · Nov 27, 2010

AJ quit being negative. Even if you are right

"The showring has always been the achilles heel of the shorthorn breed. If raising those kind of cattle works for you and makes you money, fine. if not go find something that does. My son has a pasture full of hair and bone conglomerations and I wouldnt give a tinkers damn for a one of them, but he seems to pay his bills on time."

knabe · Nov 27, 2010

yuppiecowboy said:
What numbers Knabe?

I bought the highest ribeye scanned bull in history back in 1970. He was long, he was thick and he was stout. And nobody gave a **** because he wasnt a frame score 7.

Nobody cared about numbers back then. The only numbers were 205 weight and cannon bone length

just seemed like shorthorns and chi's had less than 1"/100 lbs compared to other breeds in the 80's even though the shorthorns had some mass. this was a personal observation during a steer futurity over 3 years with many breeds. they did marble though, though not evenly flecked, kinda chunky flecked.

r.n.reed · Nov 28, 2010

Oldhorn,thanks for sharing your thoughts and ideas,what was your opinion of the Bennet cattle in WA.?Did they get things too pony in your opinion if so at what point?Thanks

aj · Nov 28, 2010

From what little I know about the Canadian cattle are probably deeper ribbed. Is that positive or negative?

knabe · Nov 28, 2010

american cattle seem shallower ribbed. is that positive or negative?

to me, it makes sense canadian cattle have more volume. it's colder, and a rounder container can hold more heat. the other extreme of this logic is that in hotter areas, tubier cattle would do better. might have something to do with the equator.

it's probably related to birth weight, so all canadian cattle must suck. :

Okotoks · Nov 28, 2010

Do you think some of the larger Scottish bulls could have been used more to change the breed? There were a few in Western Canada that weighed 2300 to 2500 lbs. but everyone rushed to polled bulls and dual purpose? Were there some big Scottish bred bulls in the US?

knabe · Nov 28, 2010

Okotoks said:
but everyone rushed to .......

common theme with converting maine's to blacks and probably just about everything.

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