Quantcast at the end of the rope

Sponsors



Author Topic: at the end of the rope  (Read 37440 times)

Offline SKF

  • County Champion Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 1057
  • Karma 34
    • View Profile
    • www.silverkingfarms.com
Re: at the end of the rope
« Reply #15 on: September 30, 2013, 11:10:58 AM »
I have been there as someone who has purchased a calf that turned out crazy and as a breeder who sold a nutty calf. Several years ago we bought a really nice Heatwave heifer that the more we messed with and showed her the crazier she became. Stayed in contact with the breeder and the response was always she was not that way at his place. Finally we ended up having to cut our loses which I HATED to do because I did not have the money to replace her at that time. As much as it hurt to lose that investment it sure beat having my daughter end up in the ER. We learned a lot with that heifer and moved on and got a new heifer the following year. Now this year she has a Monopoly heifer that is a witch but my daughter is older and much more experienced so she can handle her but, I make sure my 7 yr.old daughter stays clear of this heifer because this heifer lives for trying to get my younger one. As hard as it is to give up on a calf sometimes we have to give up. Some of them just have a screw loose and nothing you can do will fix it. Next year buy from someone you trust or ask people you trust who they buy from. Ask the breeders whats their policy if something goes wrong. Also remember if you bought from the breeder who raised that calf, that the calf has probably never left their place where it feels very comfortable. Some calves don't show any serious behavior issues until they go somewhere new for the first time.

Now as a breeder we had a really nice heifer that we sold in our sale that had some attitude. I could walk her and so could my oldest daughter. When we sold her I made sure to tell everyone that she was not a calf for someone without a lot of experience. Well some people with some experience bought her that came and saw her in person. I went over it with them how she was and that she is a very spooky calf that was going to require constant work. Well a few months later I hear from them that they can not handle her at all. I offered at that time to take the calf back and give them one that I had that was a puppy dog. They did not want to get rid of her and wanted to keep trying. We gave them lots of tips even offered to help with the calf. Well long story short the calf has gotten worse. I feel as a breeder I have done everything I can to fix the problem and that this is no longer my problem. I hope the breeder you are dealing with will offer to help you but it needs to be done soon. Have they offered you any advise on what to do with the calf? Good luck and hope you daughter does not give up on showing because of one calf. It happens to all of us at some point.

Offline chambero

  • State Champion Poster
  • ******
  • Posts: 3207
  • Karma 207
    • View Profile
Re: at the end of the rope
« Reply #16 on: September 30, 2013, 12:16:19 PM »

Now as a breeder we had a really nice heifer that we sold in our sale that had some attitude. I could walk her and so could my oldest daughter. When we sold her I made sure to tell everyone that she was not a calf for someone without a lot of experience. Well some people with some experience bought her that came and saw her in person. I went over it with them how she was and that she is a very spooky calf that was going to require constant work. Well a few months later I hear from them that they can not handle her at all. I offered at that time to take the calf back and give them one that I had that was a puppy dog. They did not want to get rid of her and wanted to keep trying. We gave them lots of tips even offered to help with the calf. Well long story short the calf has gotten worse. I feel as a breeder I have done everything I can to fix the problem and that this is no longer my problem. I hope the breeder you are dealing with will offer to help you but it needs to be done soon. Have they offered you any advise on what to do with the calf? Good luck and hope you daughter does not give up on showing because of one calf. It happens to all of us at some point.

This experience happens more than people realize - the opposite happens also.  Anybody that has ever dealt with me knows that I personally put a big emphasis on matching kids to the right calves.  When I buy calves, I also put a big emphasis.  But I promise calves don't always behave the same way in one place as they do another.  They are also different with different kids.  I guarantee you if have a truly mean calf, you can't give it enough tranquilizer to make it be on "good behavior" without practically knocking it out. 

There are lot of scenarios here more likely to consider than the seller was just a "crook".  If that calf was truly mean at the seller's place, you should have been able to notice something.  I've been a lot of places over my 30 years of being involved in showing cattle, and I've never seen a calf for sale with a serious known attitude problem that the seller didn't tell me about and that I couldn't pick up on right away.  If this is a nationally known breeder/trader, they didn't get that way by pawning off crazy calves on people.

Regardless, you have to call someone to discuss a problem you want them to help solve - not text.  ESPECIALLY  if they don't know you.  Anyone that encounters this situation in the future should IMMEDIATELY call the seller the day you get the calf home and realize there is a problem.  Very few people guarantee anything on show steers they sell - you just can't afford to - especially if its not a calf you bred.

Cases like this are once again proof that unless you are very experienced and very serious about showing cattle, you are way better off dealing with people you know, have done business with in the past, or are at least remotely close to you.  Finding calves on the internet and buying one calf from someone you are unlikely to ever do business with again is a very impersonal way of doing business.  Yet when there is a problem, buyers want personal attention.  You get that kind of consideration from breeders/traders with a vested interest in you as a repeat customer.  Operations that send calves all over the country are a very serious business and are run as such.  I think they need to do a better job of managing buyer expections sometimes, but you do business with operations like that when you are trying to buy a win and swing for the fences.  Most of the time it doesn't work - for a wide variety of reasons.  Don't quit or blame the industry for charging too much when it doesn't.

Your most likely route for success is to get that calf in someone else's hands to get it broken out.  And put in the nosering.........

Offline Tallcool1

  • County Champion Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 970
  • Karma 68
    • View Profile
Re: at the end of the rope
« Reply #17 on: September 30, 2013, 04:57:48 PM »
Just give the seller a call, and tell them what the deal is.  I agree with others on the thread......the seller will most likely take care of you in some way, shape, or form.

The other thing that I want to be sure to point out is that IF in fact the seller is nationally know, then you are NOT going to be the first customer that has called them with this problem.  As others have said, some of them just have a loose screw or do not adapt to their new environment.

As far as the seller knowing or not knowing, this is a tough thing.  You are dealing with a nationally known trader or producer, so they handle tremendous numbers.  The people that work at these places are VERY good at handling calves...they are professionals.  They may look at a steer and think that he is a little high headed, but never see any signs of danger.  They do this all day every day, and they just know how to handle them.

Whatever you do, don't give up.  We had a nasty one last year, great steer that was worked with constantly for 6 months.  He just always had a little "edge" to him...like he could go off any second.  Well, he did go off at the State Fair, hurt a couple people, and it was just not a good deal. 

My son was not real sure that he was too excited about showing again.  He crawled back up on the horse, did it again this year, and made the Final Drive at the same show that we had such a horrible experience. 

I showed when I was growing up.  I never got to stand in front of the backdrop, but I enjoyed it and learned a lot. 

1)  Believe......believe in yourself.  Believe it can happen.  Believe that all of that hard work will pay off.  Believe in miracles.  Believe that you actually CAN outwork them...even if you can't outspend them.  Just believe...the day will come in your life when you will be the ONLY one that believes, and that is all that you need. 

2)  Never give up. 

You are not wrong wanting your daughter to believe that she can do this on a budget...you didn't crush her or damage her for life.  You got a mean calf.  You're a great mother for being on the road with her for 2 days to go look at this steer. 

Just call the producer.

Offline E6 Durhams

  • County Champion Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 2070
  • Karma 175
  • Brock Eagon 740-815-9788
    • View Profile
Re: at the end of the rope
« Reply #18 on: September 30, 2013, 05:15:10 PM »
Just give the seller a call, and tell them what the deal is.  I agree with others on the thread......the seller will most likely take care of you in some way, shape, or form.

The other thing that I want to be sure to point out is that IF in fact the seller is nationally know, then you are NOT going to be the first customer that has called them with this problem.  As others have said, some of them just have a loose screw or do not adapt to their new environment.

As far as the seller knowing or not knowing, this is a tough thing.  You are dealing with a nationally known trader or producer, so they handle tremendous numbers.  The people that work at these places are VERY good at handling calves...they are professionals.  They may look at a steer and think that he is a little high headed, but never see any signs of danger.  They do this all day every day, and they just know how to handle them.

Whatever you do, don't give up.  We had a nasty one last year, great steer that was worked with constantly for 6 months.  He just always had a little "edge" to him...like he could go off any second.  Well, he did go off at the State Fair, hurt a couple people, and it was just not a good deal. 

My son was not real sure that he was too excited about showing again.  He crawled back up on the horse, did it again this year, and made the Final Drive at the same show that we had such a horrible experience. 

I showed when I was growing up.  I never got to stand in front of the backdrop, but I enjoyed it and learned a lot. 

1)  Believe......believe in yourself.  Believe it can happen.  Believe that all of that hard work will pay off.  Believe in miracles.  Believe that you actually CAN outwork them...even if you can't outspend them.  Just believe...the day will come in your life when you will be the ONLY one that believes, and that is all that you need. 

2)  Never give up. 

You are not wrong wanting your daughter to believe that she can do this on a budget...you didn't crush her or damage her for life.  You got a mean calf.  You're a great mother for being on the road with her for 2 days to go look at this steer. 

Just call the producer.



The believe part of this post is the best thing I've ever read on here. That should be shown prominently somewhere for all to see. I'll admit it, brought a tear to my eye. I can relate. Never give up!!! Cows are a way of life. It's in you or it isn't. We need all the children we can get involved in agriculture. And you are a awesome mom for doing what you did. Road trips are expensive.

Offline BTDT

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 443
  • Karma 38
    • View Profile
Re: at the end of the rope
« Reply #19 on: September 30, 2013, 05:49:30 PM »
Just give the seller a call, and tell them what the deal is.  I agree with others on the thread......the seller will most likely take care of you in some way, shape, or form.

The other thing that I want to be sure to point out is that IF in fact the seller is nationally know, then you are NOT going to be the first customer that has called them with this problem.  As others have said, some of them just have a loose screw or do not adapt to their new environment.

As far as the seller knowing or not knowing, this is a tough thing.  You are dealing with a nationally known trader or producer, so they handle tremendous numbers.  The people that work at these places are VERY good at handling calves...they are professionals.  They may look at a steer and think that he is a little high headed, but never see any signs of danger.  They do this all day every day, and they just know how to handle them.

Whatever you do, don't give up. We had a nasty one last year, great steer that was worked with constantly for 6 months.  He just always had a little "edge" to him...like he could go off any second.  Well, he did go off at the State Fair, hurt a couple people, and it was just not a good deal. 
My son was not real sure that he was too excited about showing again.  He crawled back up on the horse, did it again this year, and made the Final Drive at the same show that we had such a horrible experience. 

I showed when I was growing up.  I never got to stand in front of the backdrop, but I enjoyed it and learned a lot. 

1)  Believe......believe in yourself.  Believe it can happen.  Believe that all of that hard work will pay off.  Believe in miracles.  Believe that you actually CAN outwork them...even if you can't outspend them.  Just believe...the day will come in your life when you will be the ONLY one that believes, and that is all that you need. 

2)  Never give up. 

You are not wrong wanting your daughter to believe that she can do this on a budget...you didn't crush her or damage her for life.  You got a mean calf.  You're a great mother for being on the road with her for 2 days to go look at this steer. 

Just call the producer.

And THIS is exactly the reason you SHOULD give up on the calf. I don't care how good the calf is, it is NOT worth hurting you, your daughter OR any INNOCENT bystander.  ESPECIALLY if the injured can "prove" the calf was unsafe before it was put out to public.
If I was injured, or one of my family members was injured by a calf that was KNOWN to be have an "edge", or by a breeder that has a history of wild cattle, I would be ticked off to the point of calling a lawyer. And trust me, I am NOT one to call a lawyer, but in such a case of negligence, someone would have to be held responsible.

 

Offline Telos

  • County Champion Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 2267
  • Karma 84
    • View Profile
Re: at the end of the rope
« Reply #20 on: September 30, 2013, 05:55:59 PM »
When families get involved with these projects they put "faith" in people and never realize all the multitude of issues that might go wrong. 90 plus % of families who get involved in club calf projects are not experts and probably never will be.

What is a reputable breeder? Supposedly this was a reputable breeder.

It's not complicated and there are no excuses. Like so many, this family got taken advantage of. Period.

Seller should be liable and somehow make good.

Actions like this are bad for the sport and bad for everyones bottom line who mess with this crazy club calf business.





« Last Edit: September 30, 2013, 06:17:00 PM by Telos »
Jack Jabara

Offline Tallcool1

  • County Champion Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 970
  • Karma 68
    • View Profile
Re: at the end of the rope
« Reply #21 on: September 30, 2013, 06:07:54 PM »
Just give the seller a call, and tell them what the deal is.  I agree with others on the thread......the seller will most likely take care of you in some way, shape, or form.

The other thing that I want to be sure to point out is that IF in fact the seller is nationally know, then you are NOT going to be the first customer that has called them with this problem.  As others have said, some of them just have a loose screw or do not adapt to their new environment.

As far as the seller knowing or not knowing, this is a tough thing.  You are dealing with a nationally known trader or producer, so they handle tremendous numbers.  The people that work at these places are VERY good at handling calves...they are professionals.  They may look at a steer and think that he is a little high headed, but never see any signs of danger.  They do this all day every day, and they just know how to handle them.

Whatever you do, don't give up. We had a nasty one last year, great steer that was worked with constantly for 6 months.  He just always had a little "edge" to him...like he could go off any second.  Well, he did go off at the State Fair, hurt a couple people, and it was just not a good deal. 
My son was not real sure that he was too excited about showing again.  He crawled back up on the horse, did it again this year, and made the Final Drive at the same show that we had such a horrible experience. 

I showed when I was growing up.  I never got to stand in front of the backdrop, but I enjoyed it and learned a lot. 

1)  Believe......believe in yourself.  Believe it can happen.  Believe that all of that hard work will pay off.  Believe in miracles.  Believe that you actually CAN outwork them...even if you can't outspend them.  Just believe...the day will come in your life when you will be the ONLY one that believes, and that is all that you need. 

2)  Never give up. 

You are not wrong wanting your daughter to believe that she can do this on a budget...you didn't crush her or damage her for life.  You got a mean calf.  You're a great mother for being on the road with her for 2 days to go look at this steer. 

Just call the producer.

And THIS is exactly the reason you SHOULD give up on the calf. I don't care how good the calf is, it is NOT worth hurting you, your daughter OR any INNOCENT bystander.  ESPECIALLY if the injured can "prove" the calf was unsafe before it was put out to public.
If I was injured, or one of my family members was injured by a calf that was KNOWN to be have an "edge", or by a breeder that has a history of wild cattle, I would be ticked off to the point of calling a lawyer. And trust me, I am NOT one to call a lawyer, but in such a case of negligence, someone would have to be held responsible.

I agree...give up on the calf, NOT the whole hobby of Showing Cattle.


Offline paj315

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 199
  • Karma 1
    • View Profile
Re: at the end of the rope
« Reply #22 on: September 30, 2013, 06:40:31 PM »
Had the same problem with a heifer we bought about 10 years ago. Went to look at her she was fine, got her home she was fine , but the more we worked her the worse she got. In the barn and going back and forth to the wash room she was fine but the minute you took her out the barn door her head went down and off she went. Tried everything from a extra long rope tied to a post, two people on the end of the lead, doped her up, nothing worked except a nose snap and even after a while that quit working. Called the breeder who was a local guy and he would do nothing. In fact it took over a year to get her registration papers and when they came he had everything wrong . In the end we gave up and turned her out to be a cow. Just wasnt worth the hassle and risk. Her first calf was a giant and was born dead and had to be pulled then after pulling the calf the cow got paralyzed and we had to put her down. Needless to say we never bought anything from that breeder again.

Offline frostback

  • County Champion Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 2068
  • Karma 262
    • View Profile
Re: at the end of the rope
« Reply #23 on: September 30, 2013, 07:15:23 PM »
After reading some of the responses on this thread it makes me not want to sell calves. It is quit amazing how some never seem to want to take responsibility for their actions. It must just be the breeders fault, not what they have or not done.
Some peoples true character only comes out in PMs.

Offline Tallcool1

  • County Champion Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 970
  • Karma 68
    • View Profile
Re: at the end of the rope
« Reply #24 on: September 30, 2013, 09:52:06 PM »
After reading some of the responses on this thread it makes me not want to sell calves. It is quit amazing how some never seem to want to take responsibility for their actions. It must just be the breeders fault, not what they have or not done.

Apparently you have never had one that you just couldn't manage?  You can just break 'em all?

There are some fairly experienced members sharing real life experiences on this thread. The woman that started the thread comes from generations of cattle showing. Chambero...30 years. My kids are 3rd generation.

Tell us ALL where we went wrong...I will listen. I'm always looking for ways to help my family be better at this. 

I don't know that there has to be "fault"...unless the seller knew. Otherwise I believe that it is a fact of showing cattle. Some calves just don't want to give in. They don't want to be show cattle and will hurt someone to prove their point.



Offline Okotoks

  • State Champion Poster
  • ******
  • Posts: 3078
  • Karma 122
  • Diamond Belvedere 29B
    • View Profile
    • Diamond Shorthorns
Re: at the end of the rope
« Reply #25 on: October 01, 2013, 12:47:32 AM »
After reading some of the responses on this thread it makes me not want to sell calves. It is quit amazing how some never seem to want to take responsibility for their actions. It must just be the breeders fault, not what they have or not done.

Apparently you have never had one that you just couldn't manage?  You can just break 'em all?

There are some fairly experienced members sharing real life experiences on this thread. The woman that started the thread comes from generations of cattle showing. Chambero...30 years. My kids are 3rd generation.

Tell us ALL where we went wrong...I will listen. I'm always looking for ways to help my family be better at this. 

I don't know that there has to be "fault"...unless the seller knew. Otherwise I believe that it is a fact of showing cattle. Some calves just don't want to give in. They don't want to be show cattle and will hurt someone to prove their point.
I think that is Frostback's point, there doesn't have to be a fault unless the seller knew. Not every project we take on will end in success.
Some animals change disposition when put in different situations. I have seen a quiet animal load on a trailer act like a crazy thing when being unloaded.A few times at our 4H club a calf that was manageable at Achievement day went nuts when arriving at the large interclub show in Calgary. It's unfortunate a large amount was spent on the steer and I can understand the disappointment but hopefully quitting altogether is not the lesson that will be learned.

Offline aj

  • National Champion Poster
  • **********
  • Posts: 6418
  • Karma 177
    • View Profile
Re: at the end of the rope
« Reply #26 on: October 01, 2013, 07:48:59 AM »
Don't buy cattle from cattle traders......NEVER buy breeding cattle from club calf people. They don't have breed loyalty......they want to make a fast buck. Strictly my opinion.
People can't believe we have such a big moon for such a small town.

Offline ejoe326

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 193
  • Karma 4
    • View Profile
Re: at the end of the rope
« Reply #27 on: October 01, 2013, 08:38:49 AM »
aj not quite an accurate statement.

We have no "breed loyalty" and we absolutely will stand behind what we sell.  Club calves, heifers, cows, and bulls. 

Absolutes aside from death and taxes aren't all that beneficial to anyone.




Offline vc

  • County Champion Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 1777
  • Karma 56
    • View Profile
Re: at the end of the rope
« Reply #28 on: October 01, 2013, 09:43:07 AM »
Over the years I have seen or bought all of them, ones who start out fine and go south, the calves who you know will be a project from the very beginning but turn out fine, puppy dogs that never give you problems and one I just should have never bought. (My first steer)
In your case I would CALL the breeder; to me a text is like an update, the breeder probably did not get the impression that you were having a problem just letting him know how things were going. Call them explain the situation, and see what they will do.

Here are some thoughts I have about selecting cattle when it comes to their behavior.

If they run about 10 yards from you turn with a defiant look head and tail up and blowing smoke, I do not care how cool they look, cross them off your list period. A bruised chest broken hand and feeding them with a bucket in one hand a 2*4 in the other is not the way to go.

If they run away but stay with other calves, that is normal, if they always seem to be the first calf to scatter and run twice as fast and twice as far away from you as the other calves, probably going to be an issue. You can settle some of them but it can take twice as long and depending on your fencing at home can be a real problem up to that point, if they ever settle (The Commercial Angus guy we got some of our calves from calls these Orangutans) The heifers like this leave.

Most calves will settle down more and more just as you walk through the pens and look at them, shoot at some of the sales they have been walked through so many times they just start standing or laying there as you go through, these calves are a better choice than the one that is still running from end to end at the end of the day.

When selecting calves I think behavior is as important as soundness, if either go south, so does the project.

I hope the breeder makes things right for you.

Offline frostback

  • County Champion Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 2068
  • Karma 262
    • View Profile
Re: at the end of the rope
« Reply #29 on: October 01, 2013, 09:58:45 AM »
After reading some of the responses on this thread it makes me not want to sell calves. It is quit amazing how some never seem to want to take responsibility for their actions. It must just be the breeders fault, not what they have or not done.

Apparently you have never had one that you just couldn't manage?  You can just break 'em all?

There are some fairly experienced members sharing real life experiences on this thread. The woman that started the thread comes from generations of cattle showing. Chambero...30 years. My kids are 3rd generation.

Tell us ALL where we went wrong...I will listen. I'm always looking for ways to help my family be better at this. 

I don't know that there has to be "fault"...unless the seller knew. Otherwise I believe that it is a fact of showing cattle. Some calves just don't want to give in. They don't want to be show cattle and will hurt someone to prove their point.
I think that is Frostback's point, there doesn't have to be a fault unless the seller knew. Not every project we take on will end in success.
Some animals change disposition when put in different situations. I have seen a quiet animal load on a trailer act like a crazy thing when being unloaded.A few times at our 4H club a calf that was manageable at Achievement day went nuts when arriving at the large interclub show in Calgary. It's unfortunate a large amount was spent on the steer and I can understand the disappointment but hopefully quitting altogether is not the lesson that will be learned.

That is my point and another one is that some people are choosing their calves and then complaining about the breeder. Unless you send money and tell someone to send me a calf, it was their choice. Stand behind your decision. She went and looked at the calf, no one sent it to her. How on earth is the breeder supposed to know how a calf will act at a new location. If there were not red flags when the calf is at home. If there was then yes shame of the breeder, funny how everything wrong is always someone's else fault, some have no accountability. 
Our criteria for choosing what we sell is if its not something our kids would show or could show it doesn't sell. My 12 year old helps with the calves so if I don't feel comfortable with him around them they don't sell.
Some peoples true character only comes out in PMs.

 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
1 Replies
5072 Views
Last post January 03, 2007, 04:32:53 PM
by joe
4 Replies
4572 Views
Last post September 05, 2008, 02:23:10 PM
by Zach
24 Replies
9124 Views
Last post September 20, 2009, 10:05:13 AM
by Kansas Karl
9 Replies
8874 Views
Last post March 13, 2010, 02:33:57 AM
by [cowgirl_up_47
1 Replies
2498 Views
Last post April 29, 2010, 04:32:13 PM
by combine54

Powered by EzPortal

SteerPlanet Designed Websites

SteerPlanet Designed Websites

Steer Planet Classifieds & Auctions

Breeder Directory