at the end of the rope

this is more of an opinion then anything.....my daughter was finally seriously hurt after 2 months  of  trying to break her steer...after spending her hard earned money on a calf from a very popular breeder(that shall remain nameless) shes finally given up. there's no way she can replace him at this point. We are not the kind of family that can pay thousands of dollars for a calf  and then turn around and drop thousands more just because the first isnt going to come around. (hes just downright mean.)  Now we are not the kind of family that is new to showing , we are 4-h  and ffa alumni, my kids have grown up showing ,mother,  father , aunts, etc. We have always loved what 4-H and FFA is all about. the knowledge , responsibility ,family , everything. Well not so much anymore. What its become to mean is one thing Money.  How much you can make off someone.  Ive seen in it in hog, goats, lamb, everything.  How much money can you make off these kids seem to be the new norm. Is this what the programs have become?Is this what we are teaching are showkids? maybe im guilty of the same thing. I took my daughter thousands of miles, had her animal shipped here to just to watch her hopes get dashed every day for 2 months. Now she is done i think . As her family we have tried to keep her hopes up, but after this last incident i cannot ask her to keep trying. She(and i don't blame her) has lost all confidence in the industry, not to mention what we  think of the breeder for the sale of this calf to her. How in good conscience do you sell a calf  like that to a young person? well ive always taught my kids buyer beware, i guess that goes in all industries. Well so long from this family , i do believe our showing days are over.

Have you called the breeder? Was the calf sold as halter broke? I wouldn't give up just yet. Many times a breeder will try and make it right. I feel for you guys. Confidence is not something easily regained. But in life you always have challenges. Big and small. I'd try and contact the breeder. If they then drop the ball, publish their name.

Out of curiosity, what's the pedigree on your calf? Good luck

Who helped your daughter try to break this calf out?  Calves are family projects and require help.

Price doesn't have anything to do with a situation like this.  A crazy calf is too expensive if it cost a dollar.  If you bought it out of a pasture sale, its likely the breeder didnt realize it.  Some calves also change personalities when they change environments.

Did you actually check the calf out in person before you bought it?  If you didn't, you bear part of the blame.  Buying sight unseen from someone you dont know and most importantly- from someone that doesnt know you and your limitations is very high risk.

Sometimes you have to give up on one.  We had to give up on our best one this year - and we raised it.  My 5-11, 195 lb right tackle couldn't handle him.  It happens.

But we sure didn't give up on showing.

@tevorgrey....yes this calf was sold as halter broke..i have texted the breeders  with my concerns about him after the first month but we didnt want to give up.My text back "well some of them are like that" Was told hes a monopoly. always thought they had good demeanor's.
@ chambero.. this is my daughters fifth steer.. we know steers are a family project. Family members , friends even our steer superintendent are helping out. its become a collaborative effort at this point, and hes just not coming around. hes dangerous
my daughter and i traveled to see this steer 2 days(one way) to check him out. gas motels and cost of calf, plus the shipping back all adds up. we cannot just run and get another one. she is in her last 2 years of ffa and saved her money to buy a "good Calf" from one of the top show cattle barns in the nation because she loves to show.
Im guilty alright, guilty of making her think she can make her dreams come true and be competitive . all she's got is hurt.

"Halter Broke" and "Broke to Lead" are two completely different things.  I know you are disappointed and upset but it is too bad you are giving up on the "industry" because of one bad experience.  Cattle have distinct personalities just like humans and YES, there will be times you won't succeed.  What is more important lesson to teach your daughter now is how you deal with it, pick yourself up and move on without giving up.

Make a phone call to them.  You really "texted" them about an issue like this??????  If you really spent a lot of money on him, they'll probably try to help.

You answered my questions and it sounds like you have tried correctly.  When you went to look at the calf, did you see him on the halter (either tied up or led)?

You need to have adults take this calf on.  I lknow I dont know what has/hasnt happened, but I can guarantee Your daughter is scared of him now and the calf knows it.  Get your daughter out of the picture for a while. Best thing would be to get him in another barn and sick some big boys on him.  Put a permanent nose ring in him also.

A break from each other might do them both (and you) good.

Never spend money on a show animal you cant afford to strike a match to.  A bunch of bad things can happen.

By the way, Monopoly is about the only sire I havent had a mean one from ever.

If you have projected the problem to the seller and they will not make good, then shame on them. Some calves are just down right crazy and no matter what you do it will not undo their bad attitude. The seller knew this and should not have sold the calf in the first place. It's criminal when people knowingly release a calf that has a bad attitude to a young person who could be severely injured. They should show some integrity and take the calf back along with giving back your money. End of story.
 

Chambero - your a bit out of line on this. It appears that this family has the experience to handle calves and different situations. It also seems like they have contacted the breeder. I don't care if it was by text, phone or carrier pigeon, they were told "too bad". That is the same as "screw you, I have your money".  And THAT is just WRONG. Any reputable breeder would take the calf back and exchange it for another of equal value. Every breeder that sells club calves KNOWS they are going to a youth, and SHOULD cull or fully disclose any calf with attitude issues.

4-H mom - PLEASE do not give up on livestock just because of one *ick who apparently has no ethics, morals or brain cells. I am willing to bet the breeder KNEW the calf had a bad attitude and more than likely had it "tranq'ed" when people were looking at him.  So do NOT beat yourself over the fact that you saw him and noticed nothing.
Go back to someone you bought from in the past and had good luck with and tell them the situation and see if they don't have a calf that would be easy to work with to get your daughters confidence back.  While I hate seeing any youngster get frustrated and quit, I also see things from her point of view (and yours). Its hard to forget the pain and frustration. 

I have been accused of being a bit harsh, but if the seller doesn't make it right, you might advertise the calf here on steer planet and say something like, "Monoply calf that is really nice but meaner than hell. Came directly from ABC farms. Daughter spent hard earned money on calf, but the calf is unbreakable and ABC farms said "too bad" so we are now trying to sell him.

Nothing upsets me more than having some egotistical a##, take advantage of a youth. And people wonder why the clubbie world has such a bad reputation.

I wish you well 4-H Mom. Good luck and remember, there are several of us "good guys" left in the business and we would really like to see youngsters succeed.

4-H Mom, I can definitely sense your frustration and dissapointment. What you and your daughter are experiencing has been experienced by so many in the show cattle industry. Shoot, one of the best heifers I've ever bred gave me killer rope burn the other week. I was soooooo mad! We didn't get a picture of her.  In this situation If I was the breeder I wouldn't hesitate a minute to offer your money back. So it's definitely worth a phone call. They may allow you to take the calf to the sale barn and give you the remaining balance of what you paid for the calf. I would do some searching for a really docile calf that might be mediocre so that your daughter at least has a project that she can work on and be proud of her work. Hope the best for you.

disengage the rear end.

this will cause the calf to think differently.

You might advertise the calf honestly here and see if anyone would like to make a trade with you of a good quality calf. 

A change of scenery may help the calf and some folks would relish the chance to get a high $ calf, even if he is a bit difficult.

Other cattlemen may step up and help your daughter out with a different calf.

I had one turn on me a few years ago and that was the last day he was haltered.  It was very late, but I found a puppy-dog broke Herf steer from an area cattleman.  Cost a bit more than I like to pay, but he was broke and had been shown twice.  Winning was not our goal, just have a good family experience.

Good luck and I hope your daughter is OK.

As my main man TJ (Thomas Jefferson) said..."When you come to the end of your rope, tie a knot in it and hang on."

It's very hard for me to believe that a prominent operation wouldn't make this right with you.  Negative publicity from a disgruntled buyer is certainly one of the worst things that can happen to any operation.

Flat out ask to return him and see what happens.

trevorgreycattleco said:

Have you called the breeder? Was the calf sold as halter broke? I wouldn't give up just yet. Many times a breeder will try and make it right. I feel for you guys. Confidence is not something easily regained. But in life you always have challenges. Big and small. I'd try and contact the breeder. If they then drop the ball, publish their name.

Out of curiosity, what's the pedigree on your calf? Good luck

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How come my other posts got taken down ? To much heat in the kitchen for some I guess. If you're going to throw stones , you better be on the look out for a bigger one coming back at you.

I have been there as someone who has purchased a calf that turned out crazy and as a breeder who sold a nutty calf. Several years ago we bought a really nice Heatwave heifer that the more we messed with and showed her the crazier she became. Stayed in contact with the breeder and the response was always she was not that way at his place. Finally we ended up having to cut our loses which I HATED to do because I did not have the money to replace her at that time. As much as it hurt to lose that investment it sure beat having my daughter end up in the ER. We learned a lot with that heifer and moved on and got a new heifer the following year. Now this year she has a Monopoly heifer that is a witch but my daughter is older and much more experienced so she can handle her but, I make sure my 7 yr.old daughter stays clear of this heifer because this heifer lives for trying to get my younger one. As hard as it is to give up on a calf sometimes we have to give up. Some of them just have a screw loose and nothing you can do will fix it. Next year buy from someone you trust or ask people you trust who they buy from. Ask the breeders whats their policy if something goes wrong. Also remember if you bought from the breeder who raised that calf, that the calf has probably never left their place where it feels very comfortable. Some calves don't show any serious behavior issues until they go somewhere new for the first time.

Now as a breeder we had a really nice heifer that we sold in our sale that had some attitude. I could walk her and so could my oldest daughter. When we sold her I made sure to tell everyone that she was not a calf for someone without a lot of experience. Well some people with some experience bought her that came and saw her in person. I went over it with them how she was and that she is a very spooky calf that was going to require constant work. Well a few months later I hear from them that they can not handle her at all. I offered at that time to take the calf back and give them one that I had that was a puppy dog. They did not want to get rid of her and wanted to keep trying. We gave them lots of tips even offered to help with the calf. Well long story short the calf has gotten worse. I feel as a breeder I have done everything I can to fix the problem and that this is no longer my problem. I hope the breeder you are dealing with will offer to help you but it needs to be done soon. Have they offered you any advise on what to do with the calf? Good luck and hope you daughter does not give up on showing because of one calf. It happens to all of us at some point.

SKF said:

Now as a breeder we had a really nice heifer that we sold in our sale that had some attitude. I could walk her and so could my oldest daughter. When we sold her I made sure to tell everyone that she was not a calf for someone without a lot of experience. Well some people with some experience bought her that came and saw her in person. I went over it with them how she was and that she is a very spooky calf that was going to require constant work. Well a few months later I hear from them that they can not handle her at all. I offered at that time to take the calf back and give them one that I had that was a puppy dog. They did not want to get rid of her and wanted to keep trying. We gave them lots of tips even offered to help with the calf. Well long story short the calf has gotten worse. I feel as a breeder I have done everything I can to fix the problem and that this is no longer my problem. I hope the breeder you are dealing with will offer to help you but it needs to be done soon. Have they offered you any advise on what to do with the calf? Good luck and hope you daughter does not give up on showing because of one calf. It happens to all of us at some point.

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This experience happens more than people realize - the opposite happens also.  Anybody that has ever dealt with me knows that I personally put a big emphasis on matching kids to the right calves.  When I buy calves, I also put a big emphasis.  But I promise calves don't always behave the same way in one place as they do another.  They are also different with different kids.  I guarantee you if have a truly mean calf, you can't give it enough tranquilizer to make it be on "good behavior" without practically knocking it out. 

There are lot of scenarios here more likely to consider than the seller was just a "crook".  If that calf was truly mean at the seller's place, you should have been able to notice something.  I've been a lot of places over my 30 years of being involved in showing cattle, and I've never seen a calf for sale with a serious known attitude problem that the seller didn't tell me about and that I couldn't pick up on right away.  If this is a nationally known breeder/trader, they didn't get that way by pawning off crazy calves on people.

Regardless, you have to call someone to discuss a problem you want them to help solve - not text.  ESPECIALLY  if they don't know you.  Anyone that encounters this situation in the future should IMMEDIATELY call the seller the day you get the calf home and realize there is a problem.  Very few people guarantee anything on show steers they sell - you just can't afford to - especially if its not a calf you bred.

Cases like this are once again proof that unless you are very experienced and very serious about showing cattle, you are way better off dealing with people you know, have done business with in the past, or are at least remotely close to you.  Finding calves on the internet and buying one calf from someone you are unlikely to ever do business with again is a very impersonal way of doing business.  Yet when there is a problem, buyers want personal attention.  You get that kind of consideration from breeders/traders with a vested interest in you as a repeat customer.  Operations that send calves all over the country are a very serious business and are run as such.  I think they need to do a better job of managing buyer expections sometimes, but you do business with operations like that when you are trying to buy a win and swing for the fences.  Most of the time it doesn't work - for a wide variety of reasons.  Don't quit or blame the industry for charging too much when it doesn't.

Your most likely route for success is to get that calf in someone else's hands to get it broken out.  And put in the nosering.........

Just give the seller a call, and tell them what the deal is.  I agree with others on the thread......the seller will most likely take care of you in some way, shape, or form.

The other thing that I want to be sure to point out is that IF in fact the seller is nationally know, then you are NOT going to be the first customer that has called them with this problem.  As others have said, some of them just have a loose screw or do not adapt to their new environment.

As far as the seller knowing or not knowing, this is a tough thing.  You are dealing with a nationally known trader or producer, so they handle tremendous numbers.  The people that work at these places are VERY good at handling calves...they are professionals.  They may look at a steer and think that he is a little high headed, but never see any signs of danger.  They do this all day every day, and they just know how to handle them.

Whatever you do, don't give up.  We had a nasty one last year, great steer that was worked with constantly for 6 months.  He just always had a little "edge" to him...like he could go off any second.  Well, he did go off at the State Fair, hurt a couple people, and it was just not a good deal. 

My son was not real sure that he was too excited about showing again.  He crawled back up on the horse, did it again this year, and made the Final Drive at the same show that we had such a horrible experience. 

I showed when I was growing up.  I never got to stand in front of the backdrop, but I enjoyed it and learned a lot. 

1)  Believe......believe in yourself.  Believe it can happen.  Believe that all of that hard work will pay off.  Believe in miracles.  Believe that you actually CAN outwork them...even if you can't outspend them.  Just believe...the day will come in your life when you will be the ONLY one that believes, and that is all that you need. 

2)  Never give up. 

You are not wrong wanting your daughter to believe that she can do this on a budget...you didn't crush her or damage her for life.  You got a mean calf.  You're a great mother for being on the road with her for 2 days to go look at this steer. 

Just call the producer.

Tallcool1 said:

Just give the seller a call, and tell them what the deal is.  I agree with others on the thread......the seller will most likely take care of you in some way, shape, or form.

The other thing that I want to be sure to point out is that IF in fact the seller is nationally know, then you are NOT going to be the first customer that has called them with this problem.  As others have said, some of them just have a loose screw or do not adapt to their new environment.

As far as the seller knowing or not knowing, this is a tough thing.  You are dealing with a nationally known trader or producer, so they handle tremendous numbers.  The people that work at these places are VERY good at handling calves...they are professionals.  They may look at a steer and think that he is a little high headed, but never see any signs of danger.  They do this all day every day, and they just know how to handle them.

Whatever you do, don't give up.  We had a nasty one last year, great steer that was worked with constantly for 6 months.  He just always had a little "edge" to him...like he could go off any second.  Well, he did go off at the State Fair, hurt a couple people, and it was just not a good deal. 

My son was not real sure that he was too excited about showing again.  He crawled back up on the horse, did it again this year, and made the Final Drive at the same show that we had such a horrible experience. 

I showed when I was growing up.  I never got to stand in front of the backdrop, but I enjoyed it and learned a lot. 

1)  Believe......believe in yourself.  Believe it can happen.  Believe that all of that hard work will pay off.  Believe in miracles.  Believe that you actually CAN outwork them...even if you can't outspend them.  Just believe...the day will come in your life when you will be the ONLY one that believes, and that is all that you need. 

2)  Never give up. 

You are not wrong wanting your daughter to believe that she can do this on a budget...you didn't crush her or damage her for life.  You got a mean calf.  You're a great mother for being on the road with her for 2 days to go look at this steer. 

Just call the producer.

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The believe part of this post is the best thing I've ever read on here. That should be shown prominently somewhere for all to see. I'll admit it, brought a tear to my eye. I can relate. Never give up!!! Cows are a way of life. It's in you or it isn't. We need all the children we can get involved in agriculture. And you are a awesome mom for doing what you did. Road trips are expensive.

Tallcool1 said:

Just give the seller a call, and tell them what the deal is.  I agree with others on the thread......the seller will most likely take care of you in some way, shape, or form.

The other thing that I want to be sure to point out is that IF in fact the seller is nationally know, then you are NOT going to be the first customer that has called them with this problem.  As others have said, some of them just have a loose screw or do not adapt to their new environment.

As far as the seller knowing or not knowing, this is a tough thing.  You are dealing with a nationally known trader or producer, so they handle tremendous numbers.  The people that work at these places are VERY good at handling calves...they are professionals.  They may look at a steer and think that he is a little high headed, but never see any signs of danger.  They do this all day every day, and they just know how to handle them.

Whatever you do, don't give up. We had a nasty one last year, great steer that was worked with constantly for 6 months.  He just always had a little "edge" to him...like he could go off any second.  Well, he did go off at the State Fair, hurt a couple people, and it was just not a good deal. 
My son was not real sure that he was too excited about showing again.  He crawled back up on the horse, did it again this year, and made the Final Drive at the same show that we had such a horrible experience. 

I showed when I was growing up.  I never got to stand in front of the backdrop, but I enjoyed it and learned a lot. 

1)  Believe......believe in yourself.  Believe it can happen.  Believe that all of that hard work will pay off.  Believe in miracles.  Believe that you actually CAN outwork them...even if you can't outspend them.  Just believe...the day will come in your life when you will be the ONLY one that believes, and that is all that you need. 

2)  Never give up. 

You are not wrong wanting your daughter to believe that she can do this on a budget...you didn't crush her or damage her for life.  You got a mean calf.  You're a great mother for being on the road with her for 2 days to go look at this steer. 

Just call the producer.

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And THIS is exactly the reason you SHOULD give up on the calf. I don't care how good the calf is, it is NOT worth hurting you, your daughter OR any INNOCENT bystander.  ESPECIALLY if the injured can "prove" the calf was unsafe before it was put out to public.
If I was injured, or one of my family members was injured by a calf that was KNOWN to be have an "edge", or by a breeder that has a history of wild cattle, I would be ticked off to the point of calling a lawyer. And trust me, I am NOT one to call a lawyer, but in such a case of negligence, someone would have to be held responsible.