From the American Shorthorn Association

Help Support Steer Planet:

shorthorns r us

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 9, 2007
Messages
900
Notice: Effective April 1, 2008 - the rush fee for registrations will increase to $100 and must be paid upfront. “Normal” turn around is 2 weeks from the date received at the office. A “rush” fee would apply to any work needed in less than that amount of time.

2 weeks my .................................................. foot!  (argue)   YOU GOTTA BE KIDDIN' ME!  As crappy of a job as they have been doing recently, this is ridiculous.

Maybe I should read my own signature line.

I may never get another set of papers again!
 

yuppiecowboy

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 3, 2007
Messages
341
You just made me throw up in my mouth. I get the hives every time i write a check and send it to omaha. I realize that processing takes time and that they are inundated with "RIGHT NOW" requests for heifers being sold two days before a show, but its BS. the NASD and SEC demand a transfer of paper title on a security within two days of a transaction and I think the ASA, with this day and age, can do it in one.

The sole reason I have horns is to not break family tradition. It is the poorest run association there is.
 

shortyjock89

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 6, 2007
Messages
4,465
Location
IL
As soon as my sister and little bro's get  done showing in Jr. Shows, I doubt that we register any more Shorthorns...my cows will get bred to Maines, and that's how it's gonna be.....I really think that the ASA will run off some of the few members it has with how badly things are being run.  We sure do have an awesome breed as far as cows and the show ring goes, but when the Association is mentioned, no one has anything good to say. I think it's time for a major change, or I'll be gone for good!!
 

shortyjock89

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 6, 2007
Messages
4,465
Location
IL
The ASA is quickly building a reputation of being pretty bad at dealing with their members, many of which have been loyal to the breed for a long while.  I just don't know why it is the members' job to call every two days for a month straight to get a calf registered. I'm not even talking about getting the papers, I just mean registered in the database..  I know that they are busy people, but it seriously took me four months to get papers on my heifer..and last year it took us 3 months to get all the info on the registration right on a heifer my sister bought...all the info on the transfer was correct..the breeder mailed a copy of the original registration to us....it's getting really old, really fast.
 

yuppiecowboy

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 3, 2007
Messages
341
I dont want to disclose names or call anyone out on a website, but let me tell y'all a little story... A small breeder who diligently paid his dues for many years had a bull calf born. He thought it was pretty good and sold him to a "big" guy in Illinois for 1800 bucks but retained a 1/3 semen interest.

So, "big" guy in Illinois absolutely hits the jackpot. This was the Horn bull between Leggs and Double stuff. Little guy gave neighbor guy 5 units of semen on "the bull" for helping him clip. Big guy sues little guy. for five units. And little guy cant get any more semen form big guy.. little guy calls in the ASA. ASA basically tells little guy to fly a kite because he is little guy and they dont want to upset big guy. HMMMMM>

I have horn cows. I pay my dues on an as needed basis. I register on an as needed basis

Bolze was the voice of reason and I dont blame him for running like the devil was after him when he saw the mess he was in
 

shortyjock89

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 6, 2007
Messages
4,465
Location
IL
That is a story that I imagine happens more often than I care to think about.  We, as small breeders, can rarely do anything to change the breed.  It doesn't really matter how good the animals we raise are, we don't have the number of cows or necessary bulk of clout (usually money) to make a difference.  It's sad
 

aj

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 5, 2006
Messages
6,420
Location
western kansas
Does cagwin have controll of the newly elected directors?I kinda lost track of the director makeup.
 

itk

Well-known member
Joined
May 6, 2007
Messages
556
Location
KS
Mathers,Taylor, and Guidrey are the new board members and I think they should all be great additions. The breed and the Mathers family have such a long history I am excited to see Les elected to the board. I personally wouldn't have a problem with the rush fee if the ASA has been consistently returning papers in a timely manner. They have supposedly gotten on top of the registration issues but I think charging these fees so early in the new system is a bit premature. Give it a couple years and prove to the membership that they can return papers quickly then you can charge $100. That being said I heard that something like 75% of the paper registrations have errors. So I know they spend alot of time trying to solve these problems.
 

justintime

Well-known member
Joined
May 26, 2007
Messages
4,346
Location
Saskatchewan Canada
Maybe I am missing somethiing here. Was not the $100 fee only for rush registrations? To me that sounds like a very good incentive for breeders to get their registrations in, rather than sending them in at the last minute and wanting them done IMMEDIATELY.From what I have been told, it has become normal for the office to become dumped on with a huge number of registrations and transfers before each major show. I think the $100 fee is a very fair charge that allows any breeder to move to the front of the line, so to speak. I am sure if they had put a $25 or $50 fee for this rush service, we would not see many comments about this, on here or anywhere else...... and little would have changed. The $100 fee should be an incentive for you to send in your work in an orderly,timely fashion... and it still permits for the occasional items to move to the front of the line. I would think that should also result in fewer registration errors as the most mistakes happen when the staff is literally swamped. I appears that the $100 fee has done part of what it was intended for... it has got your attention.
This  rush service fee was not imposed as a method to fleece the membership. I think it was imposed with the intention of spreading out the workload and allowing the staff to do their work properly without losing their sanity. I happen to think this is a very, very good idea!

I will admit that the ASA has seen some turmoil and major changes in the last year, but it appears to me that these are gradually working themselves out. Not only did they have major staff changes but they also had new registry programs and computers to deal with. The new programs also will allow for registrations online, and I know there have been some glitches that have had to be resolved. I have found the present employees at the ASA and Shorthorn Country to be very cordial and willing to help whenever I have called. I recently received registration papers on 3 head that I wanted to get registered in the ASA. I still have the envelop that they came in, and from the post mark it took 6 days to arrive here ( including a weekend). It was just under 3 weeks earlier that I sent the work to the ASA so if it took the same amount of time to get it to them, they did have the work completed and mailed back to me in less than two weeks. I kinda doubt that I have any extra pull with the ASA employees!! I do think that this was much worse a few months ago, but I do see major improvements.

I just looked at the fees for registration and transfer services at the ASA and I happen to think they are quite reasonable for a smaller association. Of course, larger associations can provide services a a little less cost, as their costs are spread over more members and more items processed. It costs $15 to register a calf up to 12 months of age. Surely you can tell if a calf is good enough to register prior to it reaching one year of age. If it is an AI calf, there is an additional $5 fee.  A transfer is $11 if done within 60 days of the sale. An annual membership can be purchased for $35. To me, these fees are very reasonable. You cannot licence your dog for $35!They are " comparable" to most any other breed I can think of, and if  your calves are not worth the $15 to register them, well, I would suggest that you should consider crossbreeding most of your cows .After all, heterosis is probably the only free thing I can think of in this business. These fees are very reasonable in the world we live in. I filled my truck with gas yesterday and it cost over $100.

In regards to some people having more "pull" in the ASA than others, I think this happens in EVERY breed. I have been involved in quite a few breeds over the years and this has been a major problem in EVERY ONE OF THEM. A major league sales manager in  a major breed, told me that he would only manage my production sale if I purchased my herd bulls from a select set of breeders that he was involved with. He also told me that he could not assist me in marketing any animals I consigned to sales he managed.... if I " played the game" and regularly purchased breeding stock in his sales. I do not like this stuff any more than any one else... and I will assure you that no one tells me where I buy and sell my cattle. I buy a herd sire when I find the one I am looking for, whether it be from a small unknown breeder, or from a national breed sale. Personally the politics I have seen in several breeds other than Shorts is far more advanced than anything I have ever experienced in this breed. I have never had anyone in the Shorthorn breed tell me where I should buy my breeding stock.

I can think of no breed where the " small breeder" can play a major role than in the Shorthorn breed. I guess it depends on what you mean by the term" small breeder". If it only means the size of your herd, I can think of numerous breeders with less than 20 cows that have had considerable impact and success. I know of one breeder with 8 cows that consistently sells 3 or 4 bulls each year for more a $4000 average. Not too many " Big breeders' can match his success in this regard. I know of a very small breeder with less than 15 cows that has shown at Louisville on two occasions. He has two divisional heifer calf champions and has had people lined up at his stall trying to buy his animals. Each year he has sold all the animals he has taken to the show, out of his stall at prices he has set. Why does he have success? The main reason is he brings out good cattle... and good cattle will get noticed no matter how many cows you have at home. He also treats people in a fair and friendly manner and does not get involved in any politics. I don't think it is the number of cows one has that matters as much as it is the quality of the cattle you produce, the image you have developed for your product ( the last time I checked there was no cow herd size requirement for buying advertising) and the reputation you have developed for yourself and your program. All of these items have an affect on how much success you will have as a breeder... in any breed.

When BSE hit Canada, I learned a very valuable lesson. For several months, it was hard to sell any cattle as virtually all cattle markets stalled. After the first year of this, I realized that in my operation, 7 cows has generated over 60% of the income received from my cattle. This proved to me that the number of cows you have is not the issue... it is what cows you have... and how you market and promote them. A small breeder can have as much impact as any large breeder.

 One of my herd sires came from a herd of 11 cows. He is now being marketed in over 100 countries. I found one of my donor females in a herd that had had 6 purebred cows and a couple of crossbreds. I tried to buy her as a heifer calf and didn't get it done. I urged this breeder to get her fit and take her out to a few shows. He did this and she won a National Championship. I was able to get her purchased as a bred heifer. She has now generated many many times what I paid for her in offspring and embryos. Embryos from her have sold to 6 countries in the past 3 years. Several years ago, we imported a bull from Ireland named IDS Duke of Dublin. Duke came from a breeder who had 1 cow that he kept in his back yard. Each year the breeder would lead this cow 7 miles to the Quane's to get her bred... and then lead her back home. It is hard to be a smaller breeder than this guy was. We purchased him and paid him a hefty price, because this bull was the best bull we could find.

One more comment then I will quit. From time to time, issues will appear that you don't agree with, in the ASA or any other organization you are involved in. If you feel strongly enough about them, you certainly have the right to try to change them. The so called few who run everything, have no more clout than you do when it comes to voting than you do. Each delegate has only as a certain number of votes based on the membership in their area. I am sure that if you are upset with any program, that there will be others of like mind. It may take some of your time, but if it is important enough, you can make changes. If you feel strongly enough about what is happening you can work to become a delegate yourself or work to get someone else elected that is of like mind. You have to decide whether you are going to become part of the problem... or part of the solution.



 

NHR

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 12, 2007
Messages
683
Location
Rice TX
justintime said:
I just looked at the fees for registration and transfer services at the ASA and I happen to think they are quite reasonable for a smaller association. Of course, larger associations can provide services a a little less cost, as their costs are spread over more members and more items processed. It costs $15 to register a calf up to 12 months of age. Surely you can tell if a calf is good enough to register prior to it reaching one year of age. If it is an AI calf, there is an additional $5 fee.  A transfer is $11 if done within 60 days of the sale. An annual membership can be purchased for $35. To me, these fees are very reasonable. You cannot licence your dog for $35!They are " comparable" to most any other breed I can think of, and if  your calves are not worth the $15 to register them, well, I would suggest that you should consider crossbreeding most of your cows .After all, heterosis is probably the only free thing I can think of in this business. These fees are very reasonable in the world we live in. I filled my truck with gas yesterday and it cost over $100.

I believe that if you are a whr member then the registration and transfer fees are waived. This makes an even better deal. The on-line registration system is great. Since I have started using on-line registration I have gotten paperwork with 4 to 5 days from the time I submitted the information on-line.
 

itk

Well-known member
Joined
May 6, 2007
Messages
556
Location
KS
The average shorthorn breeder has 8 cows. So what defines a large breeder. Since we have announced our herd reduction we have had countless people come up and say they are sad to see us getting out of the breed, when all we are doing is selling 19 cows. There are more Angus breedersin NE Kansas with over 100 cows then there are shorthorn breeders with over 100 cows in the whole country. Sure there are breeders with more clout then others but there is less disparity between the top and bottom shorthorn breeder then there is in other breeds. This makes the membership equal and is why the greatest strength the breed has is the people. Me and Lee have a neighbor down the road who might have ten shorthorn cows on a good day who was on the national board a few years ago and bred the National Champion bull last year. That is not likely to happen in Angus but with shorthorns everybody has a chance to have success and influence the breed.
 

NHR

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 12, 2007
Messages
683
Location
Rice TX
itk said:
The average shorthorn breeder has 8 cows. So what defines a large breeder. Since we have announced our herd reduction we have had countless people come up and say they are sad to see us getting out of the breed, when all we are doing is selling 19 cows. There are more Angus breedersin NE Kansas with over 100 cows then there are shorthorn breeders with over 100 cows in the whole country. Sure there are breeders with more clout then others but there is less disparity between the top and bottom shorthorn breeder then there is in other breeds. This makes the membership equal and is why the greatest strength the breed has is the people. Me and Lee have a neighbor down the road who might have ten shorthorn cows on a good day who was on the national board a few years ago and bred the National Champion bull last year. That is not likely to happen in Angus but with shorthorns everybody has a chance to have success and influence the breed.

ditto
 

the_resa86

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 16, 2008
Messages
51
Location
Michigan
I don't really have a problem with the rush fee.  In fact I had to pay it earlier this year because I didn't get my paperwork in on time.  The issue I have is with them saying that the average is 2 weeks to get paperwork back when I know for a fact the true average is 6 - 10 weeks (I was told this by a person inside the office).  I don't know if it is getting better or not, I just got paperwork back that I had sent int 10 weeks ago.  I do think raising the rush fee will help to alleviate some problems but I just hope that sooner or later they get caught up and can give us a more realistic estimate on how long it will take to get papers back.
 

Dale

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 13, 2007
Messages
451
Our most recent transfers and registration (not online) were done in a reasonable time.  To send me a password to register online, one of the staff members was working very late--8:30 p.m.  Not long ago the ASA had to call me because I had fogotten to mark the gender of a calf.  Many of us need to learn to register online, which is quicker.  The toll-free line is available to call and ask Gwen for help.
 

ELBEE

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 7, 2007
Messages
635
Location
Blue Rapids, Kansas
I've had some good results with the on-line registrations. There are also some new features; like immediate transfers, ET reg., and on-line signatures.

Last year there were days when only one person was handling registrations, for that matter most of the office. She put in a lot of over time, God Bless you Shirley Miller!
 

garybob

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 4, 2007
Messages
1,634
Location
NW Arkansas
NHR said:
itk said:
The average shorthorn breeder has 8 cows. So what defines a large breeder. Since we have announced our herd reduction we have had countless people come up and say they are sad to see us getting out of the breed, when all we are doing is selling 19 cows. There are more Angus breedersin NE Kansas with over 100 cows then there are shorthorn breeders with over 100 cows in the whole country. Sure there are breeders with more clout then others but there is less disparity between the top and bottom shorthorn breeder then there is in other breeds. This makes the membership equal and is why the greatest strength the breed has is the people. Me and Lee have a neighbor down the road who might have ten shorthorn cows on a good day who was on the national board a few years ago and bred the National Champion bull last year. That is not likely to happen in Angus but with shorthorns everybody has a chance to have success and influence the breed.

ditto
Everybody? BS!!!!!!!!!!!! I got told by Jeff Aegerter that I was too far "off the map", geographically, For other Shorthorn Breeders to visit my place ( although I live SMACK-dab between Eureka Springs and Branson) and, Nick Hammet said i came from a "backward and uneducated part of the world", when I was telling him of my frustrations in getting damn-good feeder calves marketed.

I hope my experiences are atypical.

GB
 

Doc

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 13, 2007
Messages
3,636
Location
Cottontown, Tennessee
  GB, I didn't think you registered your Shorties. If you don't, then why would you expect anyone to drive to your place or why would you even care?  Other than to just to shoot the breeze with you. As far as having success in the breed , I strongly disagree with you , just ask a certain small breeder from PA that won L'ville this year. It also depends on how you define success. JMO. ;D
 

justintime

Well-known member
Joined
May 26, 2007
Messages
4,346
Location
Saskatchewan Canada
GB... I don't know the full exent of what you were being told, but I think you were getting the ole brush off. There are lots of breeders far more isolated than you are in the Shorthorn breed, or any other breed. If you raise what someone else is looking for, the miles don't seem to matter. I would think that I am far more isolated than you are... as I am somewhere between nothing and nowhere.

There is an old saying that in order to succeed... you need to bloom where you are planted. I guarantee that if you had a few bulls like JPJ ( or several other bulls that come to mind) standing in your bull pen, that you would have more visitors to your place than you ever thought possible. Build a better cattle beast ...and they will come.... and they will come with cheque books in hand.
 

TPX

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 2, 2007
Messages
137
We found that in Canada all the fees were high and that what we got back in return from the assoc was pathetic.  The whr thing was my first turn off but I know why it was done and realize its b/c the horns are a smaller breed and need all the money that they can get.  I found the whole process very complicated we deal with the CLRC to register and transfer, we deal with the ASA to get epd's (which seemed like they took for ever) and the we deal with the CSA if you have any other things to do.  In the angus its nice cause you leave your credit card number there and they start and account for you and now we can do it all online and it makes the job so much easier on our end and also at the offices end.  I wonder how long it will take the CSA to do there work online.  It seems like when ever some boards get extra money up here they do some very weird stuff like all the focus on carcass data I dont get it some of these people cant give you a birth weight, weining weight, yearling weight or epd's but for some reason they think that carcass data is going to relate to there buyers.  Most commercial guys that I have dealt with dont care about carcass data b/c they arent feeding there own animals in fact they will tell you that they like low btw and high wwt b/c thats where they make there money.  I think that the breed needs to look around at where some of the other breeds were 10-15 years ago and start there.
 

Latest posts

Top