Administering banamine

[LLBUX]

Label directions say to administer via IV.  (Not set to or even know how to)

Can it safely and properly given subcutaneously?

Thank you-

 

[NHR]

Im not a vet but our vet would give them a shot IM.

You should always consult a Veterinarian first!!!

 

[okiegirl]

Our vet gave our big steer a shot last week IM.  He said it gets to work faster in the vein, but is fine IM>

 

[kwolf]

I have been told not to give it IM or SubQ because it burns for a while and irritates the animal.  Once you see somebody give it IV it is very easy to do,  but I have given it IM before I knew this and it worked out fine.  I think its just an animal comfort thing.

 

[DL]

Label directions say to administer via IV.  (Not set to or even know how to)

Can it safely and properly given subcutaneously?

Thank you-

Giving Banamine off label (ie SQ or IM) is one of the FDAs big deals because it leads to voliative residues, which results in condemnation of carcasses and fines for the offenders (don't shoot the messenger - as they said in Dragnet - "Just the facts ma'm") - the FDA is on the look out for Banamine residues (which result from off label use)

Giving Banamine off label also results in inflammation and tissue reaction resulting in loss of product (according to "authorities although I have still not seen a study that says that the Banamine reaction is worse than other things we give IM or SQ to cattle)

The 4 day meat with hold applies ONLY to Banamine given IV - because of pharmokinetics (the way the drug is metabolized) the drug remains in the bovine much longer when given either IM or SQ

Giving Banamine off label is technically illegal unless you have a valid vet-cleint-patient relationship and all of the parts of AMDUCA and ELDU are met

I would contact my vet and make sure you get a slaughter with hold for the route that you are using - if he/she says 4 days they are WRONG and if you are thinking of shipping the animal using that with hold DON'T - you do not want to end up on the FDAs "RED LIST"

okiegirl - I hope your fair isn't soon and that your vet gave you a slaughter with hold in writing for the Banamine s/he gave IM

LLBUX - thanks for reading the label - many people don't  IMHO if you are giving drugs to animals destined to be food you should read the label each and every time you give the drug - hope that helps

 

[chambero]

Our vet gives in the neck muscle as long as the animal isnt being sold any time soon. 

 

[okiegirl]

Big Boy will not go to a terminal show until the first of Oct. 

 

[LLBUX]

My patient is a cow.  I don't plan to sell her any time soon.

What would be the proper withdrawal period assuming the vet gave her a show IM or SubQ?

 

[twistedhshowstock]

If your worried about muscle irritation or residue, give it orally!!!  Just like with IM, it isnt as effective orally as it is per the label IV.  But it still works.

 

[okiegirl]

If your worried about muscle irritation or residue, give it orally!!!  Just like with IM, it isnt as effective orally as it is per the label IV.  But it still works.

We've done that a couple of shows, when our steer was sore from having to be tied up and standing on hard shaving covered ground for a couple of days.

 

[Freddy]

THIS might be a dumb question but sure I have heard of people giving it orally ,never tried it but wondered what other people had heard ..

 

[renegadelivestock]

im, iv, and orally are all effective, iv works the quickest

on a side note, 1cc in a glass of O.J> cures a hangover really quick

 

[rackranch]

DL, can you please provide me with your site reference stating/showing where the FDA has fined for the use of Banamine because of an injection site.  If you could provide me with any reference showing where the FDA has fined a 4-H of FFA student for the use of IM Banamine administration It would greatly appreciate it.

Thanks...

Label directions say to administer via IV.  (Not set to or even know how to)

Can it safely and properly given subcutaneously?

Thank you-

Giving Banamine off label (ie SQ or IM) is one of the FDAs big deals because it leads to voliative residues, which results in condemnation of carcasses and fines for the offenders (don't shoot the messenger - as they said in Dragnet - "Just the facts ma'm") - the FDA is on the look out for Banamine residues (which result from off label use)

Giving Banamine off label also results in inflammation and tissue reaction resulting in loss of product (according to "authorities although I have still not seen a study that says that the Banamine reaction is worse than other things we give IM or SQ to cattle)

The 4 day meat with hold applies ONLY to Banamine given IV - because of pharmokinetics (the way the drug is metabolized) the drug remains in the bovine much longer when given either IM or SQ

Giving Banamine off label is technically illegal unless you have a valid vet-cleint-patient relationship and all of the parts of AMDUCA and ELDU are met

I would contact my vet and make sure you get a slaughter with hold for the route that you are using - if he/she says 4 days they are WRONG and if you are thinking of shipping the animal using that with hold DON'T - you do not want to end up on the FDAs "RED LIST"

okiegirl - I hope your fair isn't soon and that your vet gave you a slaughter with hold in writing for the Banamine s/he gave IM

LLBUX - thanks for reading the label - many people don't  IMHO if you are giving drugs to animals destined to be food you should read the label each and every time you give the drug - hope that helps

 

[DL]

DL, can you please provide me with your site reference stating/showing where the FDA has fined for the use of Banamine because of an injection site.  If you could provide me with any reference showing where the FDA has fined a 4-H of FFA student for the use of IM Banamine administration It would greatly appreciate it.

Thanks...

The FDA lists the violators weekly - - we get the spread sheet through the AABP - I would have to look on the gov't web site to find it (good luck with that eh

The repeat violators are listed on this site http://www.fsis.usda.gov/Science/Chemistry/index.asp

I don't read it every week so I can't tell you if a 4H steer has been found in violation but I do know that most (but not all) of the violative residues have been found in dairy animals

Banamine is one of their hot button drugs - to the point where is is difficult if not impossible to get FARAD or anyone else to provide a scientific slaughter with hold for extra label use

don't shoot the messenger

 

[rackranch]

O.K.  I'll do some looking around.  I did a little looking but came up with nothing.  I feel like if i could find some more info, especially on 4-H and FFA students, I could use it as an educational tool when talking to students about quality assurance.  Somehting that might hit a little closer to home when trying to get the point across.

Thanks again

 

[herfluvr]

Please ask the vet about Banamine Paste.  Doesn't seem a lot on here  know it comes in a paste.  Needs about 10-15 minutes to kick in and dosed by weight on tube.  In the mouth with the liquid is vile nasty tasting stuff.

 

[NHR]

Just checked out the report. That is some good information to use as an educational tool.

 

[Feed Guy]

Label directions say to administer via IV.  (Not set to or even know how to)

Can it safely and properly given subcutaneously?

Thank you-

Giving Banamine off label is technically illegal unless you have a valid vet-cleint-patient relationship and all of the parts of AMDUCA and ELDU are met

There is nothing in AMDUCA or ELDU that permits an unapproved route of adminstration, so giving Banamine or any straight flunixin product, by any route other than IV is illegal. Doesn't matter if it is done by a vet or authorized by a vet, your vet does or surely should know this.

 

[DL]

Label directions say to administer via IV.  (Not set to or even know how to)

Can it safely and properly given subcutaneously?

Thank you-

Giving Banamine off label is technically illegal unless you have a valid vet-cleint-patient relationship and all of the parts of AMDUCA and ELDU are met

There is nothing in AMDUCA or ELDU that permits an unapproved route of adminstration, so giving Banamine or any straight flunixin product, by any route other than IV is illegal. Doesn't matter if it is done by a vet or authorized by a vet, your vet does or surely should know this.

This is where the whole notion of ELDU and AMDUCA becomes very fuzzy and very gray - strictly speaking ELDU is not permitted unless the life of the animal is in jeopardy ("the animals health is threatened or suffering") - how do we define health is threatened or suffering? Strictly speaking EDLU is illegal if used for production purposes (is synchronization for breeding considered production purposes?). Strictly speaking if you increase the dose of penicillin for your calf without consulting and getting written instructions from your veterinarian you are in violation of ELDU and AMDUCA. strictly we cannot use Cystorelin (GNRH) in synchronization programs because it is labeled only for cystic ovaries.. Strictly speaking dexamethasone cannot be legally used to induce labor in cattle because it is not labeled for such use and acepromazine is not labeled for cattle so stricly speaking its use is illegal.

Now it appears that to the FDA some ELDU is "worser" (to paraphrase George Orwell) than other ELDU and the most likely reason is the creation of violative residues in animals who are intended for food - in cattle (mostly dairy cows) the 2 biggest offenders - the 2 biggest causes of violative residues are flunixin meglamine (aka Banamine) and penicillin

And quite frankly the purpose of AMDUCA and ELDU is to provide veterinarians (and thereby farmers) with tools to treat and manage their animals to promote health and welfare - a veterinarian who follows the ELDU rules can legally prescribe or administer flunixin in a manner off label with regard to both dose and route - they must however provide a science base slaughter with hold, written records etc. This is where the veterinarian should use their brain to provide the best for the patient and the client. AMDUCA and ELDU are not black and white

http://www.avma.org/reference/amduca/amduca1.asp

 

[kfacres]

I do know that most (but not all) of the violative residues have been found in dairy animals

That's so they can 'walk' off the truck.. as long as they can walk off-- they can be sold...  nifty thinking really..