Ags "friend" John

[redwingfarm]

My wife and watched the debate last night  and we were shocked by McCain's comments on ethanol,  He clearly stated he would eliminate the ethanol subsidy which is bad enough but then took it a big step futher by stating he would remove the tarriffs on Brazilian ethanol and welcome it into our country.
Gee John, thanks a bunch, the local ag econmy is bad enough right now with crop prices dropping worse than the stock market, and 2009 crop prices all below break even, so lets destroy the US ethanol industry and put more corn back into the market  and further depress prices,  What a great idea!!  And then to twist the knife once you have stabbed the American farmer in the back lets bring in some Brazilian ethanol.  What a great way to get to independence from foreign fuel, substitute Saudi oil for Brazilian ethanol.  Whoppee, sign me up!!

 

[BIGTEX]

I wish they wouldn't use Ethanol at all in gasoline. You get worse gas mileage, it's worse for your car and it has raised feed prices. Sorry to all the corn farmers. Barack is going to" develop alternative fuels" and eliminate Ethanol and gas anyway. Is that good for corn farmers?

 

[JSchroeder]

Welfare for farmers is still welfare.

 

[CAB]

 Using 30% of our corn crop to produce 3% of our ethanol doesn't make any sense either. When corn prices go from 2-2.50/ bushel in as short of period as it has, it throws so many things into turmoil that it wreaks havoc on many sectors of the economy. We're seeing the largest reduction in the cow herd right now that has ever been in our history. Buying ethanol from Brazil @ a cheaper price than we can produce it seems smart to me. I would be asking questions like, why all of a sudden sooo many ethanol plants being built at once so that many will ultimately have to fail? Why all of a sudden do the input costs all seem to sky rocket when the price of commodities go up. With the input cost where they are right now and the prices of corn & beans where they are at, there is no way to make money. Thank gov't for revenue crop insurance I guess. The country's economy is way outta wack and not just on Wall Street. JMO. Brent

 

[aj]

I have always been pro-ethanol. I have 700 acres of corn out. I cannot believe the drop in the corn price. It has gone from what 7$ to 3.5$. I think a presidents position on a subsidy like this is overated. Congress has the power the president does very little in alot of this stuff. He has the bully pulpit and he can veto but beyond this I don't know. They are talking about moving away from corn and using something else anyway. There is no free market anymore.Everthing is intermingled especially with government any more. So we are back to the 1-10 scale again.1 being socialism and 10 being capitalism. 1 would be no private ownership of anything with government issueing food coupons and 10 would be a no labor union no minimum wage no consumer protection or worker protection and the almighty dollar rules. Where is the USA on the scale and where are we going.On the economic part of things I think it should be thought of more in these terms instead of Demaocrats vs Republicans.How about the Freedom to farm act vs the old base acreage payment programs?

 

[Show Heifer]

I buy all my feed.....I wish corn would drop to $2. Heck, if the crop farmer "loses" money they get LDP's.

The pres only has the power the congress let them have.
Ethanol in its popular form (10-15%) does not harm vehicles, nor is there any drop in MPG. Yes, the E85 has some seious issues, but if I am measuring MPG vs. dead service men, well, that is a pretty eay trade for me.
Corn prices go nuts because people in town that have never seen a corn field are buying and selling it. If you chart it over the last 10 years, corn prices have little to do with yields, environment etc, and has everything to do with that the city traders THINK the weather, yields are.

I have never figured out why people in America think it is there right to spend over their heads. They then whine until someone bails them out. Why buy a $500,000 house when you can only afford a $300,000? SImple, the gov't will come and not only offer you a better mortgage, but will LOWER YOUR PRINCIPLE making it affordable to you. This burns my butt big time. I think if we bail out those people (I don't think farmers are included in buying big fancy equipment, but if there were) I think as a taxpayer, I should have the right to meddle in the house and make sure those people are being responsible with the money I (I as a taxpayer) gave them.  I think I should be able to use the big fancy combine my nieghbor bought and then went bankrupt too. He got to keep everything he had, and literally signed the bankruptcy papers going to the airport to fly to Hawaii. WOW, what kahunas he has.

Soap box caved in and I have a sale to attend.

 

[Davis Shorthorns]

I buy all my feed.....I wish corn would drop to $2. Heck, if the crop farmer "loses" money they get LDP's.

The pres only has the power the congress let them have.
Ethanol in its popular form (10-15%) does not harm vehicles, nor is there any drop in MPG.

even the 10% ethanol reduces your fuel economy, but usually it is about the same as if you had paid the higher price for regular gas in the end.  Like you get one or two less miles to the gallon.  It can at the same time clean the inside of your engine.  A lot of the cheaper gas treatments use ethanol or diesel as a active ingredient. 

 

[TJ]

Welfare for farmers is still welfare.

I agree, it is welfare.  

 

[knabe]

don't american's have enough ingenuity to produce ethanol cheaper than brazil?

subsidies created the problem we are in now, why create small ones.  if it isn't cost effective to produce ethanol, why not produce something else?  if land prices are too high and need a subsidy to keep them high, why is this a good thing.  we constantly complain that new farmers can't enter the market.  we keep adding to the pyramid scheme instead of letting any resemblence of a market actually working to accomodate change.

we keep saying we want change, but we subsidize the exact opposite.  it looks like we are going to subsidize change now by penalizing profit with discrimination.

meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

 

[CAB]

don't american's have enough ingenuity to produce ethanol cheaper than brazil?

  Evidently NOT. I ask the same question Marc,what's wrong with supply and demand? Just that simple. We need leaders that are SMART and have some semblance of COMMON SENSE. Brent

 

[showcattlegal]

I know about 15 families that quit showing due to the feed prices. Because of the corn being so high. I also know people that own feedlots and they been wondering how to make is since corn went up so high. I know it's not to good for the farmers. But what goes up most come down. Look at the cattle prices it had been high for so long when it went down the last couple of weeks a lot of people think it's the end of the world as we know it. They don't realize it's getting back to normal.

 

[Ausley Family Farms]

Ethanol was a pipe dream to begin with. We do not have enough crop land in this country to produce enough biofuel inputs to make up 20% of the demand. Corn based ethanol is on its way out anyway. Cellulose based ethanol will soon take its place, as soon a the technology is perfected. The main problem with biofuels is that they have directly linked agricultural commodities to the energy market. If you watch the futures, corn futures are directly correlated to oil and natural gas. When you saw oil beginning to tank, corn followed. 

 

[SouthWest]

Ethanol plants need to burn energy to extract ethanol from corn.  Ever wonder what they use?  Natural gas.  You would think they would have a pipe from the ethanol tank back to their burners.  They (ethanol plants) even know ethanol is inefficient.  Ever try feeding cattle (for profit of course) with 7+ bushel corn?  Better idea.  Lets subsidise the cattle producer (feedyards).

 

[kanshow]

One problem with ethanol is that it became a commodity to be traded on - instead of a useful alternative fuel.     

Also The government has messed around with grain markets so much that there is no market in the true sense.   That's why they have the farm subsidy.  

There are too many speculators involved in both. 

 

[knabe]

The main problem with biofuels is that they have directly linked agricultural commodities to the energy market. If you watch the futures, corn futures are directly correlated to oil and natural gas. When you saw oil beginning to tank, corn followed. 

why is this a problem.  markets are supposed to be in balance, so that those who are more efficient win, and those who are not don't.  that's how things improve.  we don't keep making buggy whips.  by not linking prices to a market is the central tenet of socialism.  some economic historians point out that a stable price or cost is good for everyone, which encourages minimum wage law, taxes on 5% of the population, chipping off small sectors of successful markets to subsidize failure.  all they do is shift the fulcrum and require counterbalancing which divide, not unite.  for some reason, we have come to the conclusion that the change we want is to have as little of it as possible.  the problem is, that eventually, enough people say, heah, that's mine, and then a new constitution is made with a lot of death involved.  it's happened on a grand scale 3 times in the last 1000 years and it's about to happen again.  the more things change, the more they stay the same.

One problem with ethanol is that it became a commodity to be traded on - instead of a useful alternative fuel.      this is silly, why shouldn't it be traded?  the cost comes from somewhere.  why create a vaccumm?

a useful alternative is one that creates an unsubsidized game changer because it is more efficient for some reason, or it provides a previously non-existent service etc..  cost beneficial alternatives will then drive it's competitor's to compete.  instead, all we do is rotate subsidies.  why is this so hard to understand?  competition is simply an inverted pyramid scheme to drive prices down, not up.  perhaps this is jbarl concept of being a 5 rather than a 1 or a 10. hmm, i'll have to think about the scale.  not that i'm comprimising that a balance between the two pryamids is the right place to be.

 

[TJ]

I know about 15 families that quit showing due to the feed prices. Because of the corn being so high. I also know people that own feedlots and they been wondering how to make is since corn went up so high. I know it's not to good for the farmers. But what goes up most come down. Look at the cattle prices it had been high for so long when it went down the last couple of weeks a lot of people think it's the end of the world as we know it. They don't realize it's getting back to normal.

If high feed costs were the only reason they quit showing, someone should have introduced those families to Lowlines. 

 

[Dusty]

Ethanol plants need to burn energy to extract ethanol from corn.  Ever wonder what they use?  Natural gas.  You would think they would have a pipe from the ethanol tank back to their burners.  They (ethanol plants) even know ethanol is inefficient.  Ever try feeding cattle (for profit of course) with 7+ bushel corn?  Better idea.  Lets subsidise the cattle producer (feedyards).

Ethanol plants burn natural gas because it is cheaper than burning ethanol.  The same cattle feeder that is feeding $7 corn is still making the feeders bring a whorehouse price.. I don't ever feel sorry for cattle feeders.  They know the risks of their business when they got in. 

Corn is essentially of form of stored energy.  Cattle feeders try to convert that energy to muscle and fat and make money doing it.  Ethanol plants convert the corn energy to a liquid fuel and try to make money doing it.  Corn is essentially a food also.  Anything we eat we eat because our bodies convert the energy in the food in order to fuel our bodies. 

Is it right to trade grain as an energy commodity?  I don't know.  Don't really care.  The farmer doesn't care what his corn is used for after he sells it.  He just wants the best price.  Ethanol plants and livestock feeders are just trying to make money converting corn into another commodity. 

 

[jason]

don't american's have enough ingenuity to produce ethanol cheaper than brazil?

  Evidently NOT. I ask the same question Marc,what's wrong with supply and demand? Just that simple. We need leaders that are SMART and have some semblance of COMMON SENSE. Brent

I believe sugar cane is better for producing ethanol and there is a wide abundance over there.

 

[shortyjock89]

Yep, that's true.  Also, you can skim the biodiesel right off the top of the vat where it is produced, and put it right in your truck from there...no other processing.  Now, there would be some if you wanted to run your car on it, but this could be HUGE for the shipping industries i.e. low cost diesel. It costs about 1/4 of what it costs to produce conventional diesel to produce this sugar cane diesel.  Also, the same bacteria that produce the cane diesel (after being genetically tweaked a little) can also produce biofuels from woodchips and other biowaste.  Cool thing is about the woodchips, is after the bacteria are done, they can dry out the chips again and make fiber board..two viable products from what was called "waste".  I'm not an expert on this stuff, but it sounds like a good way to get some alternative fuels without subjecting the American Cattleman to huge feed costs just to get a little bit of fuel.

 

[knabe]

what crop produces the most sugar molecules per acre for the same inputs?  can this be selected for (obviously) because the left will have a hissy fit if molecular biology is used to insert high sugar or sugar conversion genes.

it seems to me, cattle are excellent converters of low sugar content feeds into protein that exist on otherwise unusable land, otherwise known as grazing lands, and do it with minimal inputs, as long as the cycle of accumulation is neutral or slightly higher from year to year, with only periodic removal, which happens every once in a while with fire in natural systems anyway.  no reason a pile of pooh couldn't be substituted for fire, although the C:N ratio never altered very much with pooh.

the most unique advance i've seen for ethanol is mobile processors so you don't have to ship the entire product, only the end product and the farmer can utilize the residual.  so simple it's ridiculous.  they could be like milk trucks used to be, except for ethanol.