AI question

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kanshow

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Heifer was noticed in heat this morning, normally would do the AI sometime around 5 or 6 pm.  However here is my dilema.  I'm the only one around today who can AI, I have a meeting that requires me to leave around 3:30 and won't be home til about 10 pm and it's currently around 9 deg F plus wind chill.    I'm thinking about doing the AI around 2:30 -3 before I go because I can only imagine how cold, etc it will be later.  Any thoughts?  Am I trying too early?  Should I wait? 
 

cpubarn

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I am still in my first year of AI, so hopefully an "expert" can give you a better answer, but I see you have little time.

At the AI class I went to last spring the instructors said many big Dairies around  are going to AI 1x per day, if they are seen in heat they breed.  That would mean breed her at 2:30.

I think others on this board have preached patience in the past, not getting too excited, so is the semen cheap enough to do both?  Most of mine is only $20-30, and is cheap compared to hay, having a late calf, etc.

I hope more answers come along, good luck!
 

chambero

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You'd probably be fine either way, but If you "really" want her stuck, breed her before and after.  What's an extra straw compared to waiting another 21 days.
 

kanshow

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I'm going for the mid afternoon AI and see how it goes. Then depending on how I felt that breeding is and how cold & late it is when I get home... I'll probably again.    Maybe I should put 2 different bulls in to see which one takes - J/K!!!   

We've done timed breedings on synched commercial hfrs in the past with pretty good conception rates... just wanted to be sure this one takes as she is one of the kids hfrs.
 

Cowboy

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So sorry I missed your post earlier today. Not that I am the only A-I guru that ever bred a cow -- but here is my take on your hfr.

Unless she came into heat earlier the night before, say just after dark, she would normally be way too early to service in the early afternoon. Hfrs for the most part, are inherently late ovulators - meaning they seem to stay in heat a LONG TIME, and for the most part will need bred later than some cows do for the best results.

If she were my hfr, and of course depending on when she QUIT standing in heat, I would almost every time have bred her late at night.  Not that she won't settle for you earlier -- but the best results are always later in the heat -- I preffer 4-6 hours AFTER all standing is done, they are tired -- and go lay down and rest.

The best "Timed" A-I I ever did was when the guys screwed up!! hehehe -- he simply didn't understand that he needed to watch for the early cyclers so I could breed them first. We got to the place as if nothing had came in heat as I told him if he didn't call me sooner. Well, a bunch had cycled early and he never watched them, as they were all ruffed up and sweaty from the night before. We didn't start breeding till almost noon -- and I told the guys to bring in the ones who looked wet and tired first. It ended up at 84% on the total 150 head -- with about half of them already over thier heats and tired when bred. Late is my point -- we were at almost 90 hours instead of the normaly advertised 66 hours when we got done.

Had he called and told me they were cycling early -- I would have been there to start breeding at day light -- and meybe not done as well! So --with only one example -- it still points to later is best!These were all hfrs by the way!

If you get this tonight, I think I would still go out and breed her again.

Best of luck -- Terry

PS -- I have one rule here I never break -- especially on the donors -- and that is simply -- I breed when THEY are ready -- NOT when I am ready -- it works very well too!
 

kanshow

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Thanks for all the advice.

I went back out when we got home and did her again...    does anyone know if extreme temps affect AI conception rates?



 

red

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oh yes, especially if it's really hot. I'm not sure about cold but imagine there is a correlation.

Red
 

CAB

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Extreme changes in temps either way, shock the sperm, but I would like to have someone smarter than me explain how it can come out of liquid nitrogen, be put in a warm bath for a min. of 30 seconds and not be shocked. Cowboy???
 

Cowboy

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Hehe -- good one.

Temp shock will ONLY occur if the tempurature curve is reversed -- ie -- you are going up in temp all the way thru the process, from tank - to bath -- to cow. If you were to leave the straw in the bath a long time, say a couple minutes, it will be at bath temp when you take it out. If you do this out side, it WILL drop rather fast no matter how fast you are at getting it ready.

Point being, make sure you are always going UP or at least STABLE -- and you won't have a problem.

Cold shock to the cow?? YES -- if you are breeding or transfering an embryo in severe cold, the cow is standing there shaking like a leaf. While doing this, she is releasing large amounts of adrenelin to make her muscles shake -- it creats heat to stay warmer. Adrenelin by itself is not a problem, what is a problem --especially with embryos, is that it is also a precurser for the release of Prostoglandins from the uterin lining. This IS a problem, due to the fact that if there is enough released -- it will affect the premature regression of the CL. which must be there in order for the cow to get pregnant.

In A-I -- it does affect those cows some -- but not as much. Your biggest worryt would be to make sure to keep the semen warming -- and not declining in temp. Go to the cow with the semen stuck in your pants ?? but not next to skin. It takes less than 1 second to go from pants to cow!! hehehe -- Ok go ahead an laugh!!

You did well rebreeding her!!

Hope she stuck -- Terry
 

kanshow

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Thanks Cowboy!!!      Usually there is someone else around who can help out or AI but as luck had it, yesterday I was it.  Now that is scary... 

I usually stick it down inside my shirt between layers.  The temp was in the single digits but the wind had gone down and she was dry so she didn't seem to be shivery cold.     
 

CAB

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Next question Cowboy. I thaw semen, 30 seconds in 95 degree F water. What is your protocol. I have seen literally a small handful of straws all being put in the bath @ once, and been told that they'll be OK, which maybe true as long as the temp is constant. What are your rules please? Thanks, Cab
 

Cowboy

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Hey CAB -- the FIRST response is always FREE, the second costs 10$ per second of type time -- and by the way -- I am one darn SLOW typer!!!! herhehehehehe

Oh well -- it sure looked good on paper!!  ::)

To answer your high dollar question, here is my method in a nut shell.

From factory -- thaw units are set at 96 degrees or should be. If left on for long periods, this can creap upwards almost to 98 -- not the best. 95 is surely sufficient.

20-30 seconds is my standard -- with a ""MAXIMUM"" of TWO (2) units at one time. If there is one unit -- I tend to remove closer to 20 seconds than 30, if there are two -- then I go 30.

To make refference to the issues of thaw speed --- A warm water bath is used to rapidly -- RAPIDLY, go from solid frozen to at least liquid as fast as possible -- thus the reason all modern semen is processed using those slim 1/2 cc straws. The main culprit in semen damage is the fact that the TAILS will be severely damaged, and alot of the time CUT OFF, by slow thawing due to the precence of ICE crystals. If these are there (They will always be there) and are allowed to slowly thaw, as they do they wil cut the tails of the individual sperm cells. Cut off or damamge enough of them , and you are TOAST! hehe

A rapid thaw to liquid state minimizes this affect -- you will still have some damage -- but it is minimized by rapid thaw. Never - EVER -- do you want to introduce more than two units at one time --and even then -- make sure they are leaning in different directions and not touching each other. It would in my opinion be reproductive murder to put a dozen or a hand full of straws in the unit! Why on earth would you want to?? Who ever told you that needs a long talk -- with ME -- hehehe and I ain't all that pleasent  at times like that! I take that issue extremely seriously! Sorry to be a butthead!! hehehe

Now I have lost tract of the issue -- ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh???Hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh???ahhhhhh?

That will 3,230.00 please -- hehehehehe

Have a good one -- sorry CAB - I couldn't resisit

Terry

 

kanshow

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What about the 'thaw in the cow' method?  Seems like there used to be a lot of talk about that years ago.    I don't prescribe to that method but know some who do. 
 

CAB

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Terry, you know that I can relate to the one finger, slow typing method. I thought that we were friends and you would keep it short, then go off on a tangent and forget the subject even. Give me a break brother. What about the old ice bath method of thawing semen, were the sperm counts that much higher to allow for tail damage? The time that I saw a handful of straws dumped in @ once, was a tim breed situation with about 4-5 techs on hand, but I would have to agree with you when you're talking about 30 seconds thaw time, what would be the advantage of not taking the optimal precautions for securing semen quality? Thanks Terry. Brent
 

NHR

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Well this last breeding season we went with AI'ing 6 hours after witnessing standing heat. This worked great for us and we had all heifers with the breedings that we did early. We did one AI 12 hours after witnessing standing heat and got a bull calf. There was a study done with AI times and there was a higher percentage of a heifer calf when AI'ing earlier in the heat cycle. Seems to have worked for us. Now with show heifers that we have to get bred we will AI 6 hours and then again at 12 hours.

 
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