AMAA

Help Support Steer Planet:

Jill

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 20, 2007
Messages
3,551
Location
Gardner, KS
** Progeny from an unregistered Maine-Anjou sire (exceptions: Angus, Red Angus and Hereford) that is a carrier or a non proven free bull is unregisterable unless individual progeny is tested free of both TH and PHA.

Ok, just got this in an email, the way I am reading it they have changed the policy so a calf out of a dirty bull can be registered as long as the calf is clean.
 

shortyjock89

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 6, 2007
Messages
4,465
Location
IL
That's the way it looks to me too.  Maybe they're phasing out the dirty bulls altogether by now only allowing clean progeny to be registered.  I don't know how long ago it was we talked about this, but it seems like it was forever ago.
 

Jill

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 20, 2007
Messages
3,551
Location
Gardner, KS
The way the policy initially read no progeny would be registered out of a non-Maine th or pha bull, that's not how this is stated.
 

shortyjock89

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 6, 2007
Messages
4,465
Location
IL
Jill said:
The way the policy initially read no progeny would be registered out of a non-Maine th or pha bull, that's not how this is stated.

That's what I thought.  That would be the next logical step to end the use of dirty bulls, but do you think they'll take it that far or just leave it alone after this?
 

knabe

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 7, 2007
Messages
13,639
Location
Hollister, CA
i am for using dirty bulls, but for entirely different reasons.  as soon as i find out, it will be public knowledge.  even then, most won't do it for the reasons i would.  i'd probably guess there are only 5 or 6 people who would do it for the reason i would.

time will produce a heatwave alternative.
 

DL

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 29, 2007
Messages
3,622
this is the whole email

REGISTRATION CHANGES FOR 2009
Please note the following changes that are taking effect and will take effect Jan.
1, 2009.
Effective immediately:
** Progeny from registered Angus, Red Angus and Hereford, which are enrolled in
the AMAA database, will be considered clean by pedigree from that side of the pedigree.
Effective Jan. 1st, 2009:
** All bulls that are submitted for registry will be required to be TH and PHA FREE
by parentage or test. We will require proof of such PRIOR to registering bulls.
** Progeny from an unregistered Maine-Anjou sire (exceptions: Angus, Red Angus and
Hereford) that is a carrier or a non proven free bull is unregisterable unless
individual progeny is tested free of both TH and PHA.
If you have any further questions please feel free to email Christy at
[email protected]

Good for the AMAA - a rational decision
 

justintime

Well-known member
Joined
May 26, 2007
Messages
4,346
Location
Saskatchewan Canada
Makes sense to me... sounds like a good policy. You have the choice of using clean or unclean sires. You will only be allowed to register bull calves providing the have tested clean. I think this will provide security for both buyer and seller. The buyer will know that if it is a registered Maine, it is clean of defects.If it is not registered, the buyer better be finding out why it is not registered.

One more point to consider.... I had a situation this spring where a bull that was tested to be TH free sired a TH calf. Fortunately for all involved, it was in a herd of 11 cows, and this calf was the 3rd calf born from this sire. It would have been much worse if this TH calf had appeared two or three calf crops from now. There were only two carrier cows in this herd. When the calf was born, the owner notified me, and we had it shipped to a vet college where they confirmed that it was indeed a TH calf. We then re tested the bull and on the second test he was a carrier. This only proves that mistakes can happen, so I would suggest that if you are selling a bull that comes from a carrier sire or dam, for any kind of money, it may be a good idea to test them twice... just to be sure. I am not sure what happened in this case, but I certainly don't hold any hard feeling with Dr. Beever or any of his staff. It was an case of human error. I have complete faith in the test, I just know that there is always a chance for error when people are involved. I only have a few carriers in my herd. Most are used as recips, but there are two females that I am trying to get a TH daughter from to continue the lines. At that point, these cows will also become recips or be sent packing to town. Just thought this out as a note of caution to others.
 

DL

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 29, 2007
Messages
3,622
JIT - the TH test is 100% accurate so one wonders - 2who drew and labeled the tubes?? was this bull an Outcast offspring?

And on a different note what is the pedigree of your big cow?
 

knabe

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 7, 2007
Messages
13,639
Location
Hollister, CA
DL said:
JIT - the TH test is 100% accurate so one wonders - 2who drew and labeled the tubes?? was this bull an Outcast offspring?

And on a different note what is the pedigree of your big cow?

this might have been the case where the wrong assay was used based on pedigree, or something like that, rather than the test itself having a problem.
 

shortyjock89

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 6, 2007
Messages
4,465
Location
IL
Barrel Racer has a picture of Outcast in the lab that she yells at when things like this happens.
 

justintime

Well-known member
Joined
May 26, 2007
Messages
4,346
Location
Saskatchewan Canada
DL- the tubes were identified correctly in this case. I am not 100% sure of the lab procedure, but Jon Beever told me that on checking back in the records, this bull was supposed to have had a retest. Instead of this happening, it was deemed to be TH free by someone in the lab. The lab sent me confirmation that the bull was TH free and I accepted this at face value and sold the bull. I will also say that Dr. Beever saved me from a bad situation when he agreed to pay the bull owner for damages. I must say that this was most appreciated.

The cow I pictured is sired by Eionmor highlander 70G x by Eionmor Mr. Gus 80C x. Her dam is sired by SS Rushmore x* who was sired by QH Questing Destiny OQ11 x*. Rushmore was a very good bull from Schrags in S SDakota.
 

Jill

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 20, 2007
Messages
3,551
Location
Gardner, KS
I may be a bit negative, but there are no 100%'s in this world, we are all entitled to an error now and then and it happens even in the best of labs.
 

DL

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 29, 2007
Messages
3,622
Jill said:
I may be a bit negative, but there are no 100%'s in this world, we are all entitled to an error now and then and it happens even in the best of labs.

The 100% refers to the test itself - it will always pick out the Improver deletion and will always say when it isn't there - sensitivity and specificity - it does not include human error - when humans are involved there is always room for error - sometime with some humans more than others - but the test itself is !00% sensitive and 100% specific

The utility and accuracy of a test is assessed by determining sensitivity (% of animals with disease that test positive) and specificity (% of healthy not affected animals that test negative). This compares to say the caudal fold TB test which is designed to have 5% false positives or the Johne's ELISA which has a sensitivity of 30% and specificity of 90%. Each test has a different sensitivity and specificity based on its ability to accurately identify disease or condition vs "normal".
 

justintime

Well-known member
Joined
May 26, 2007
Messages
4,346
Location
Saskatchewan Canada
DL ... I agree. Even I was wrong once. One time I thought I was wrong... haha  ( and that is a joke people.... before you jump on me)
 

DL

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 29, 2007
Messages
3,622
justintime said:
DL ... I agree. Even I was wrong once. One time I thought I was wrong... haha  ( and that is a joke people.... before you jump on me)

you - wrong once?? say it isn't so!! ;) ;)
 

JbarL

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 21, 2007
Messages
1,677
Location
30deg 17' 11.73 N 81deg 35'59.94&q
DL said:
this is the whole email

REGISTRATION CHANGES FOR 2009
Please note the following changes that are taking effect and will take effect Jan.
1, 2009.
Effective immediately:
** Progeny from registered Angus, Red Angus and Hereford, which are enrolled in
the AMAA database, will be considered clean by pedigree from that side of the pedigree.
Effective Jan. 1st, 2009:
** All bulls that are submitted for registry will be required to be TH and PHA FREE
by parentage or test. We will require proof of such PRIOR to registering bulls.
** Progeny from an unregistered Maine-Anjou sire (exceptions: Angus, Red Angus and
Hereford) that is a carrier or a non proven free bull is unregisterable unless
individual progeny is tested free of both TH and PHA.
If you have any further questions please feel free to email Christy at
[email protected]

Good for the AMAA - a rational decision
i'll play now.. ...good for....maybe...... "dare i say"....jbarl futures  ?      ( sorry coudnt resist ) ;  jbarl  <party>
 
Top