Any thoughts on what might have done this (gruesome) ***Updated***

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farmboy

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Ok they sighted two in the state of Illinois so that means there is one in every thicket ? That's like me saying we have bears in Ohio. One passes through once in a while. The dnr caught one not to far from me years ago that had a tracker on it. This thing came from like 500 miles away and brought it's cubs with it. Chance it was dogs is extremely higher than the two lions in the state getting the neighbors calf.
 

vanridge

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GLZ said:
**Major Update**

So this morning I woke up and decided to go walk around in the pasture and see if I could find anything else other than the bottom half that I had found yesterday.  I took the rifle and walked around in the pasture.  I couldn't find anything.  I decided to walk towards the cows and as I am walking towards them I come across the calf that was born yesterday morning.  The calf was still alive and quite healthy.  At this point I was pretty much baffled at what was or is going on.  I confirmed that this calf definitely belongs to the cow that calved yesterday.  I didn't see her yesterday when I found the carcass and was searching for answers as I think the cow had her down in a sinkhole.  All of my other calves are accounted for.  There isn't a thing missing.

So now in hindsight I think I have drawn a conclusion.  When I was out there yesterday I was pretty surprised that the cows were not more worked up.  If it was a major predator that killed a calf you would think they would have been a bit more on edge.  Instead they acted as if it was a normal day.  The carcass I found while definitely a calf had no blood, or any pieces around other than the picture.  The carcass wasn't that old.  It had some smell to it, but it was 97 here yesterday so it didn't even dawn on me that it could have been older.  My guess now is that a coyote or something drug it into the pasture from another farm and dropped it.  I only have one more cow to calve this year, and it doesn't look like she has calved but I have had a chance to get her to a chute to palpate her to rule that out.

So in short I have no idea whose calf I found, but I am pretty sure it wasn't mine.  

What a bizarre two days.

OK, weird outcome but your calf is still alive! <party> <party> <party>
 

firesweepranch

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Hey GLZ, could it have been a twin to the other calf? Born dead maybe and ate by predators? Timing would be right  ??? We had a cow twin this year; a 80 pound bull calf and 64 pound heifer calf, both alive thankfully! Just wondering... Another thought, out here it is not uncommon for someone to dump a dead calf in the woods, and you will find pieces of it days later. Maybe it was a dumped dead calf that was drug into your field! At least you still have a live calf  :)
 

oakview

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I am interested in your experiences with coyotes.  We have a ton of them in our timber.  Beginning about 5 or 6 years ago, I would lose a late calf or two unexpectedly each year and usually never find much of them.  The calves were observed getting off to a good start.  I started shutting the cows close to the buildings two or three years ago and haven't had problems since.  When the calves are two or three weeks old, I turn them out.  About a month ago, I had a calf and turned him out with his mother at just under two weeks of age.  I found him about 1/3 eaten 4 days later.  Another calf, about 2 months old, had a severe wound across her left shoulder and still hasn't recovered.  My best guess is that coyotes have gotten the calves in previous years, but dogs may have done the damage this year.  I have seen coyotes within 20 yards of our house, but they don't seem to bother the calves with the cows in very close proximity to them in the yard.  It seems to be only when the calves are left alone at a young age that there's a problem.  I have had people tell me that it would be very rare for a coyote to kill a live calf.  Is this true?  I don't know the habits of coyotes other than it seems that a mother with some pups might go after anything handy.  It is very common to be awakened by the sounds of numerous coyotes howling in the middle of the night.  We have way too many deer in the area, so there should be plenty of coyote food.  By the way, according to a Des Moines Register article several years ago, there were confirmed sightings of mountain lions in Polk, Webster, Marshall, and Hardin Counties.  We are right in the middle of them.  In fact, my sister saw one in her backyard several years ago on 63rd Street in Des Moines.  Her friends were warned by police not to jog in Waveland Cemetary because of all the deer carcasses (left by the mountain lions).  They seem to be around the Iowa and Des Moines Rivers.
 

GLZ

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I have had that thought that maybe it was a twin but I am leaning towards neighboring herd carcass.

At 11 pm on Thursday the cow had not calved.  In fact I woke her up in the pasture when I walked up on her.
At 5 am Friday, she had a dry calf by her.  I couldn't get close enough to determine bull or heifer but I was 90% sure heifer.  The cow looked like she was done calving and i only saw the one calf.  
I left for work, around 7 am, and found the carcass at around 5pm.  The carcass had some smell to it (where in hindsight it might have been a day or two old) but I just chalked that up to it being 97 degrees at the time.  

The timing is pretty much unbelievable as I have never found a carcass in my pasture belonging to a calf.  Let alone on a day when I was looking for a calf.

When the heifer is old enough I plan on checking to see if she is a freemartin just to be certain.
 

ROAD WARRIOR

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oakview said:
I am interested in your experiences with coyotes.  We have a ton of them in our timber.  Beginning about 5 or 6 years ago, I would lose a late calf or two unexpectedly each year and usually never find much of them.  The calves were observed getting off to a good start.  I started shutting the cows close to the buildings two or three years ago and haven't had problems since.  When the calves are two or three weeks old, I turn them out.  About a month ago, I had a calf and turned him out with his mother at just under two weeks of age.  I found him about 1/3 eaten 4 days later.  Another calf, about 2 months old, had a severe wound across her left shoulder and still hasn't recovered.  My best guess is that coyotes have gotten the calves in previous years, but dogs may have done the damage this year.  I have seen coyotes within 20 yards of our house, but they don't seem to bother the calves with the cows in very close proximity to them in the yard.  It seems to be only when the calves are left alone at a young age that there's a problem.  I have had people tell me that it would be very rare for a coyote to kill a live calf.  Is this true?  I don't know the habits of coyotes other than it seems that a mother with some pups might go after anything handy.  It is very common to be awakened by the sounds of numerous coyotes howling in the middle of the night.  We have way too many deer in the area, so there should be plenty of coyote food.  By the way, according to a Des Moines Register article several years ago, there were confirmed sightings of mountain lions in Polk, Webster, Marshall, and Hardin Counties.  We are right in the middle of them.  In fact, my sister saw one in her backyard several years ago on 63rd Street in Des Moines.  Her friends were warned by police not to jog in Waveland Cemetary because of all the deer carcasses (left by the mountain lions).  They seem to be around the Iowa and Des Moines Rivers.

I have had coyote problems in the past as well as dog problems. We have a simple rule in our pastures, if it doesn't belong - it dies. As a general rule, dogs will kill for fun not for food and coyotes kill for food not fun, but there are exceptions to the rule on both accounts. 2 years ago I caught 53 coyotes in the pasture behind my house, the previous year I caught 40+ in the same pasture. This year I only caught 21. Keep in mind this pasture is 1/2 mile wide and 1 mile long. Coyotes usually go after the internal organs first, kidneys are a special favorite. Unless they are truely wild, dogs will go home to eat. RW
 

oakview

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Did you trap the coyotes?  If so, how?  My son in law is an avid deer hunter, nailed a 15 pointer that placed in the top 5 at this winter's Iowa Deer Classic, and spends A LOT of time in his tree stand.  He says it is somewhat chilling to hear coyotes howling all around you at dusk while you're in the stand.  I think he would know if we had mountain lions in the immediate area since he spends so much time in the timber.  Any recommendations on thinning the coyote population would be helpful.
 

chambero

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That was a coyote kill.  Luckily, it wasn't your calf but they can make short work of one.  And individuals will drag parts off for pretty long distances.  It's nothing for them to pick a calf pretty clean over the course of a few hours, especially if several get in on the act.

And everybody in all parts of the country have more mountain lions than they ever dream of.  They are very shy and really only move around much at night.  They are hardly ever seen, but they are there.  For a calf size kill, they would drag the whole animal off into a secluded area to eat.
 

ROAD WARRIOR

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oakview said:
Did you trap the coyotes?  If so, how?  My son in law is an avid deer hunter, nailed a 15 pointer that placed in the top 5 at this winter's Iowa Deer Classic, and spends A LOT of time in his tree stand.  He says it is somewhat chilling to hear coyotes howling all around you at dusk while you're in the stand.  I think he would know if we had mountain lions in the immediate area since he spends so much time in the timber.  Any recommendations on thinning the coyote population would be helpful.

I find where the coyotes are crossing through and under fences and snare them. We have had reports of big cats here in S E Iowa over the last several years too. I have never saw one personally, but believe it is possible. We have a pretty large population of bobcats here as well but it is extremely rare to see one or even it's tracks but I know they are here in good numbers. A pair of coyotes can pretty much disassemble a new calf in an hour if the cow is not bothering them. A group of coyotes 3 to 6 will do it in minutes. RW
 

wyatt

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not sure if someone already said this but if the calf was a twin it could have been rejected by the mother and kicked when it was trying to nurse  jmo but i know here in central Michigan we get packs of wild dogs that go around and they attacked our neighbors dog and they totaled a trail blazer trying to kill a kitten at my grandmas they tore the main wiring harness out and everything
 

farmboy

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You can set snares for coyotes but be prepared to catch some dogs( maybe a good dog) I know I would be pissed if one of my dogs was snared. They don't kill calves or cause any harm but they do run rabbitts and some deer but are lazy farm dogs. If you have a huge piece of land like RW go for it. If not your best bet will be to shoot the wild dogs and get a llama or something to ward off the coyotes. Unless of course your not worried about getting someone's dog.
 

ROAD WARRIOR

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Zach said:
You can set snares for coyotes but be prepared to catch some dogs( maybe a good dog) I know I would be pissed if one of my dogs was snared. They don't kill calves or cause any harm but they do run rabbitts and some deer but are lazy farm dogs. If you have a huge piece of land like RW go for it. If not your best bet will be to shoot the wild dogs and get a llama or something to ward off the coyotes. Unless of course your not worried about getting someone's dog.

In over 10 years of snaring coyotes, I have caught 2 dogs that I didn't want to catch. Both were waiting on me to get there to turn them loose and were quite happy to see me. It probably makes a difference that both were broke to tie as well. I very seldom catch "off species" animals, an occaisional coon or bob cat but not much else. I come from a long line of hunters, trappers and trackers, my grandfather made his living during the depression hunting and trapping. I was fortunate enough to have spent a good share of my younger years learning from him. You have to understand the beast and their habits to be successful. RW
 

Davis Shorthorns

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i would say coyotes or coy-dogs.  Last year we had a nice week old et bull calf that one day we saw it with its mama nursing running around, the next day went out and all we found was a let.  No Mountain lions around here just a TON of coyotes.  Also agreed that most of the time a cat will bury its kill, and for one of the VERY few cats in your area not to do as 99% of them do would be even more rare.  JMO
 

farmboy

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RW do you make your own snares? Maybe post the basic process of setting one up and where to put one. Ive trapped before and caught literally hundreds of coons (live traps) and possums and cats. Never used a snare but would like to try it for some yotes.
 

trevorgreycattleco

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Zach said:
RW do you make your own snares? Maybe post the basic process of setting one up and where to put one. Ive trapped before and caught literally hundreds of coons (live traps) and possums and cats. Never used a snare but would like to try it for some yotes.

Me to. Never tried a snare for coyotes. They are thick as thieves around here. Lost one little dog already. My rottweiler has pieces of her ears missing. My aussie heeler and aussie shepard have wounds as well. 
 

wyatt

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trevorgreycattleco said:
Zach said:
RW do you make your own snares? Maybe post the basic process of setting one up and where to put one. Ive trapped before and caught literally hundreds of coons (live traps) and possums and cats. Never used a snare but would like to try it for some yotes.

Me to. Never tried a snare for coyotes. They are thick as thieves around here. Lost one little dog already. My rottweiler has pieces of her ears missing. My aussie heeler and aussie shepard have wounds as well. 
thats pretty bad sorry to hear that i know our dogs are just like family and id be sittin with a gun if that happened
 

ROAD WARRIOR

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trevorgreycattleco said:
Zach said:
RW do you make your own snares? Maybe post the basic process of setting one up and where to put one. Ive trapped before and caught literally hundreds of coons (live traps) and possums and cats. Never used a snare but would like to try it for some yotes.

Me to. Never tried a snare for coyotes. They are thick as thieves around here. Lost one little dog already. My rottweiler has pieces of her ears missing. My aussie heeler and aussie shepard have wounds as well. 

I usually buy my snares in Ebay, they cost about $1.00 a piece including shipping.t's pretty hard to explain proper techniques on here without writing a book. Coyotes are creatures of habit, if they cross under a fence once they will probably us te same crossing again. Look for hair on the bottom wire, tracks in the mud, etc. They are also lazy and will use the easiest route they can find to get through a fence - a washout under a fence, a place where there are few obstructions (briars, thick weeds, etc), or an exististing hole in a woven wire fence. RW
 

inthebarnagain

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Get a donkey.  We have coyotes bad in our area.  Havent lost a calf since we put the donkey in the field with the cows.  She is a little miniature donkey also, doesn't matter, will keep anything out of the field that doesn't belong
 
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