Article - "Against-grain" - Featuring J&K genetics

[TJ]

I was just informed about a grass finished beef article, featuring one of my customers, the Skaggs family & some of my former calves!   The article ran in a Peoria, IL newspaper.  The article doesn't mention a thing about me or J&K Livestock, but I sold all the calves in the picture to the Skaggs family, who live near Peoria, IL.  The little calf to the left of all the others is a purebred Lowline bull & the ones on the right are all 1/2 blood, Lowline X Tarentaise.  I spoke with MR. Skaggs this morning & he is very, very happy with the calves & wants to buy more!  Despite being in the middle of "corn country", it seems that the central & northern portions of IL have a pretty big market for grassfed beef.  I've had 4 different people in that area contact me about grass fed genetics in the last month alone (Springfield, Peoria, Rockford & Morris)!!  For that matter, I have 2 custumers in southern IL raising grass fed beef too (near Carbondale).  Interesting for a state that is known for raising corn!!

Lowline crosses work well when fed grain too... got someone in NY who has been grain feeding Lowline cross steers with success & they need more...  nice problem to have!   

Anyway, here is a link to the article.  The picture takes several seconds to load, even after the article has loaded, even with high speed, so be patient.  Anyway, I just thought that I would share with everyone. 

http://www.pjstar.com/features/x2109422290/Against-grain

 

[shortyjock89]

Who are your customers at Morris?  I have a friend from that area and he might know them.  Pretty cool, selling Lowlines in my part of the world. I'm the only one around with a Lowline show heifer, but that might change soon!

 

[LazyGLowlines]

That's great, TJ!  Keep up the good work!!!! (clapping)

 

[TJ]

Who are your customers at Morris?  I have a friend from that area and he might know them.  Pretty cool, selling Lowlines in my part of the world. I'm the only one around with a Lowline show heifer, but that might change soon!

I bet he does know him, because he's a DVM.  I can't think of his name right now... the last name is Truescher or something like that... it's a name I'd never heard before.  I wrote it down, so I'll get you his name.  Besides being a DVM, he lives in Morris & his dad lives in Champaign, that's all I can remember right now.  You wont believe this, but after he introduced himself, he said, "do you know a Justin Olson in Hoopeston, IL?".  I said, "of course, I do".  I honestly thought that you had sent me a referral!  But, he didn't know you & he asked what kind of Lowlines you had.  I told him," REALLY good ones!"    But, I then I told him that you only had one.  Then he asked if I'd deliver to Hoopeston or Champaign & I told him, I could probably work that out.    Anyway, he bought one from somebody last year & is really impressed with the calf.  He wants to raise grass fed beef & sell it in the Chicago area... sounded like Morris isn't too far from Chicago.

Justin, you may be sitting on a gold mine up in your area & just don't know it.  Sounds like there are lots of people buying grass fed beef in that area.  The guy in Morris wants commercial Lowline breeding stock to raise steers.  The guy up around Rockford is wanting 15-30 steers.  Ron Skaggs wants steers & says he will need more this year.  The people in Springfield are selling lots of beef at over $5 per lbs.  Quite honestly, I'm amazed & shocked.  In the last 2 months, I've had more hits from Illinois than any other state in the US, except for KY.  And if you subtract my own visits, Illinois is clearly #1.  Never would've dreamed that, but it's true!   

 

[TJ]

That's great, TJ!  Keep up the good work!!!! (clapping)

Thanks!  These Grass Fed Beef producers are good for all of us Lowline breeders!   

 

[TJ]

Who are your customers at Morris?  I have a friend from that area and he might know them.  Pretty cool, selling Lowlines in my part of the world. I'm the only one around with a Lowline show heifer, but that might change soon!

I bet he does know him, because he's a DVM.  I can't think of his name right now... the last name is Truescher or something like that... it's a name I'd never heard before.   I wrote it down, so I'll get you his name.  Besides being a DVM, he lives in Morris & his dad lives in Champaign, that's all I can remember right now.  You wont believe this, but after he introduced himself, he said, "do you know a Justin Olson in Hoopeston, IL?".  I said, "of course, I do".  I honestly thought that you had sent me a referral!  But, he didn't know you & he asked what kind of Lowlines you had.  I told him," REALLY good ones!"     But, I then I told him that you only had one.  Then he asked if I'd deliver to Hoopeston or Champaign & I told him, I could probably work that out.    Anyway, he bought one from somebody last year & is really impressed with the calf.  He wants to raise grass fed beef & sell it in the Chicago area... sounded like Morris isn't too far from Chicago.

Justin, you may be sitting on a gold mine up in your area & just don't know it.  Sounds like there are lots of people buying grass fed beef in that area.   The guy in Morris wants commercial Lowline breeding stock to raise steers.  The guy up around Rockford is wanting 15-30 steers.  Ron Skaggs wants steers & says he will need more this year.  The people in Springfield are selling lots of beef at over $5 per lbs.  Quite honestly, I'm amazed & shocked.  In the last 2 months, I've had more hits from Illinois than any other state in the US, except for KY.  And if you subtract my own visits, Illinois is clearly #1.  Never would've dreamed that, but it's true!     

Justin, the guys name is Matt Teuscher, DVM

 

[simtal]

I read that article and what a load of crap!  That article has lie after lie about common beef production!

"She said growth hormones and antibiotics fed to grain-raised cattle in feed lots are linked to early maturity problems in children"

What an absolute lie!

"The grass-fed beef was more tender than the grain-fed every time," she said. "When animals are content, they do not have stress hormones released into the meat."

Are you kidding me?!

"She works with any grass-finished meat from responsible local producers,..."

Like people who raise beef any other way are not responsible?

", noting that the altered diet and tight quarters in feed lots create the need for large amounts of antibiotics."

Lies, lies, and more lies!

What an absolute black eye to the beef industry! This is horrible publicity!

 

[knabe]

it's amazing how easily people will overlook claims without facts to back them up if they fit what they want to believe.

ageing  a carcass at least one week no doubt plays some role, as does the age of a carcass.  on the other hand, you can't blame someone for supplying what people want to believe in.  there are many outlets that don't feed hormones, not just grass fed beef.  the grass fed beef out here is over 2 years old at slaughterk and pretty much terrible (YES I KNOW YOU NEED TO COOK IT AT A LOWER TEMP).  i'm guessing it is mandatory to age the carcass.  these feel good marketing strategies are susceptible to the placebo effect backfiring at some point.

 

[TJ]

I eat mostly grain fed beef, but...

The woman in the article, Shannon Hayes, has a Ph.D.  When you get a Ph.D. you can pretty much make up whatever fable you want to believe,gather some information to attempt to support it (even if you stretch it & put your own spin on it) & then state it as fact (see below).  I'll be the first to admit, some of the comments in the article are a certainly over the top & seem to be seriously "spun".  But, while those comments may not always be true in the majority of cases, it doesn't mean that they are not true in some limited cases.   

In fairness, I do know some people who can not eat meat with growth hormones or antibiotics without suffering an adverse reactions... there are a few family's with kids like this around here.  But, do growth hormones & antibiotics cause early maturity in children?  I honestly don't know if it really does or doesn't & I doubt that anyone really knows, but I can tell you that you can't sell beef with growth hormones in Europe.  I also do know that autism, ADD, cancer, heart disease, obesity, diabetes & other such conditions are on the rise.  What is responsible for the increase of those aligments is anyones best guess & it's probably a combination of many factors, not just 1, but my guess is the modern diet is the most responsible. 

The fact is, grass fed beef does have a higher percentage of CLA & Omega 3's when compared to it's percentage of Omega 6's, than grain finished beef, which is much higher in Omega 6's.  So, that part is not a lie.  And again, I mostly eat grain finished beef, but I'll admit that grassfed is healthier.      So, will several heart patients who have seen their bad cholestrol #'s drop after eating grass fed beef.

And I have absolutely no doubt that free range chickens ARE MUCH healthier for you than the confined Chickens!  Feedlot beef is MUCH, MUCH healthier for you than confined Chickens, IMHO, too!!  But, just because feedlot beef may not be too bad for you, doesn't mean that grass finished isn't healthier for you.  And I am becoming convinced that it really is.  And a lot of American's are becoming convinced too, whether you like it or not.  Growing up, I always heard that you are what you eat.  And the truth is, you are what eat ate, too! 

With all that said, I think that the big bang theory & evolution is a big lie, as is the wide spread fable that the the world is older than a few thousand years, but that doesn't stop the Ph.D.'s from spreading their agenda as fact.  Some on this board may think it is fact.  People are different & believe different things.   

 

[simtal]

Just because you have a PhD doesn't give you permission to lie.  I work with many and I'll have my own in a couple years.

Do you think the our government would allow compounds to be used in food animal production that are not safe?

Every food authority who has examined this issue has come the conclusion that these compounds are safe, wholesome, products that have no practical health consequence.

It is irresponsible to say, or even suggest, that beef raised in this country under traditional management practices, causes harm, when it has been proven over and over that it clearly does not.

This article bases it's opinions on emotion rather than science.

But since you can sell a few more steers, its ok then. right?

 

[TJ]

"She works with any grass-finished meat from responsible local producers,..."

Like people who raise beef any other way are not responsible?

The sad truth is that the public has images of loaders pushing & lifting crippled cows into trailers any time they hear the word... "feedlot".  You can be mad about the black eye, but videos of people pushing helpless "downer" cows into trailers was not good for public relations at all.  And the truth be told, even I try to only eat beef that we raise or someone that I know raised, because the truth is, you don't what you are getting, or even what country it comes from, if you don't.  Around here, people still eat lots of grain finished beef, but many want to know who raised them, how they were raised, etc.  So, from an outsiders prospective, I think that the above comment is more than fair & it probably shouldn't be unexpected.  

 

 

 

[TJ]

Just because you have a PhD doesn't give you permission to lie.  I work with many and I'll have my own in a couple years.

Do you think the our government would allow compounds to be used in food animal production that are not safe?

Every food authority who has examined this issue has come the conclusion that these compounds are safe, wholesome, products that have no practical health consequence.

It is irresponsible to say, or even suggest, that beef raised in this country under traditional management practices, causes harm, when it has been proven over and over that it clearly does not.

This article bases it's opinions on emotion rather than science.

But since you can sell a few more steers, its ok then. right?

Lying, twisting or even manipulating the facts (it's all lying) is indeed wrong... period.  Doing that stuff is not OK just to sell a few more steers, just like it's not OK to claim that the Govt is always correct, just like it's not OK to say that a calf is out of a bull that it isn't out of, or changing it's birth date, lowering it's birth weight, raising it's weaning weight, or trying to bribe a show judge, etc., etc.  The truth is, I think evolution, the big bang & the earth being millions of years old, is all a huge lie, but Ph.D's & other Scientist have convinced many that those things are indeed a fact.  That isn't OK for them to do that either, but they do it anyway!  I wasn't defending her, I was just pointing out that's what a lot of Ph.D's like to do.  Not all, but some.  It's her opinion & like any opinion, it can be wrong.       

My sister is a Ph.D. & she doesn't lie intentionally... I wasn't implying that they were all that way.  However, it seems that many people believe that Ph.D's are all knowing, when in fact they are not, and Ph.D's sometimes do abuse their position of authority.  That's what I was trying to say... I wasn't defending her at all, and as a matter of fact, I even said she was over the top on some of those comments.  I was simply stating that Ph.D.'s sometimes do that stuff & many people just accept it as fact, which is wrong, IMHO, but that's the way it is.  I never once said it was OK.

However, I must take exception to your statement about the Govt's making a declaration as fact & then acting like it is indeed a fact just because they said so.  The truth is, just because the Govt. says something is OK, doesn't make it OK anymore than a Ph.D. telling others it's OK.  It's no secret that politicians are not all honest folk (some are, some are not), sometimes their judgment can get clouded when $$$ come into the picture & sometimes they haven't studied things long enough or haven't studied them correctly, or there may be too many other factors at play to ever really know the real answer.  The truth is, neither Ph.D's nor the Govt. are always correct, neither have all the answers & they both CAN BE WRONG!!   

The Govt. says that MSG is harmless.  Is it?  It only effects around 33% of the populatiuon with symptoms & of those 33%, it causes greater symptoms in some people more so than others.  If I eat MSG, I have a minor reaction, I know it & it bothers me.  But, the Govt says it is safe & it's OK, despite the fact that it causes problems & reactions in some people, but that still makes it safe, correct?   

The Govt also used to say that formula was the way to go with babies, but they have decided that it's actually better to breast feed & now they are encouraging that.  One minute science says eat less fat, then 10 years later, eat less carbs.  The Govt has also allowed drug companies to sell drugs that were later taken off the market.  Were those drugs safe?  The truth is we are all humans & nobody has all the answers.  And not everything is always black & white... so many things have lots of gray!!  The truth is, even the Govt. doesn't have all the answers or know everything.  I would not be at all suprised if our same Govt didn't ban implants, etc. within the next 10 years.  Will they be right then?  I hope that you can see the point that I am trying to make.     

I also have a friend who was recently diagnosed with cancer.  They got it all, but the traditional doctors want to radiate.  She said, thanks, but no thanks, & she is now seeing alternative doctors instead.  It's left to be seen how that will turn out.  But, I know people who have cured cancer by eating only fruits & vegtables, without any treatments. I also know people who have gone to Germany & gotten Enzyme injections & claim that is a "miracle" cure.  I know that convetional medicine helped to cure my mom's supposedly "incurable" cancer & I am very thankful for that, but I believe that chemo & radiation killed my grandmother rather than the cancer that she had.  The thing is, everyone has an opinion & each side has a success story & each side has a failure story too.  Who is to say which direction is the right one?  I know people who like one method & think the other is "quackery" & vise versa.  Who knows?  I sure don't.  The answers aren't always black & white.  I think it's the same way with implants.  Some claim they are safe, others claim they are the devil.  The real truth is probably somewhere in the middle.   

With that said, common sense tells me that anytime you add something that isn't natural to something, it's not going to be as good for you... period!!  It may not kill you & it may not even make you sick, but if consumed long enough who is to say that it wont eventually begin to impact your health?  If implants make cattle gain faster, what will it do to the people who ingest meat that gained faster because of those same implants?  Will it make them fatter?  Make their cancer cells grow quicker?  The truth is, I don't know.  But, I don't just think it is as easy as saying the Govt said it's safe, so it has to be.  The Govt. can be wrong.   

And, BTW, the European Govt doesn't agree with our Govt on this issue & they say that those things are not safe & they don't allow the sales of beef containing them.  So to say that you are absolutely right & Shannon Hayes is absolutely wrong, because the Govt says so, is a bit flawed, IMHO.     

Yes, I do think that some of Shannon Hayes comments were a over the top... I even said so.  But, just because she was a bit over the top, doesn't mean that the article was "lies, lies, lies", like you implied!  The truth is, all natural grass finished beed is healthier & it doesn't have any pesticides, antibiotics, etc., which are indeed a concern of some people.  Those things may not concern you, but it is a concern for some & that is a fact.     

With all that said, I still eat grain finished steak & hamburger... I do it all the time.  I also don't raise grass finished beef.  And we own 2,000+ acres in corn & bean production. 

 

[knabe]

In fairness, I do know some people who can not eat meat with growth hormones or antibiotics without suffering an adverse reactions...

it would be useful to know how many.  though for some, 1 is too many.  why don't we get rid of cars?

But, do growth hormones & antibiotics cause early maturity in children?  what about the effects of soybean on testosterone?

  I also do know that autism, ADD, cancer, heart disease, obesity, diabetes & other such conditions are on the rise.    again, this is because they are being reported more than the period in which they are being compared to.  typical mumbo jumbo.

What is responsible for the increase of those aligments is anyones best guess & it's probably a combination of many factors, not just 1, but my guess is the modern diet is the most responsible.  being taught to be a complainer is probably #1 in my book.  people put up with a lot more in years gone by.  marketing is simply cashing in on new markets.

The fact is, grass fed beef does have a higher percentage of CLA & Omega 3's when compared to it's percentage of Omega 6's, than grain finished beef, which is much higher in Omega 6's.  this can be accomplished by using marinades and if you cook one with marinades and the grass fed normal, what then is the comarison?????

And I have absolutely no doubt that free range chickens ARE MUCH healthier for you than the confined Chickens!  this is simply not true either, they are more stressed.  the data is available.Feedlot beef is MUCH, MUCH healthier for you than confined Chickens, IMHO, too!!  again, not true!!!!!

And a lot of American's are becoming convinced too, whether you like it or not.  that's because the humans have a need for faith, religion is disappearing, but it is reappearing in marketing scams and victimization.

With all that said, I think that the big bang theory & evolution is a big lie (god couldn't do a big bang?  seems to me that's what the bible is describing),

as is the wide spread fable that the the world is older than a few thousand years.  if the earth wasn't created till i can't remember which day, "our" time is measured by us going around the sun.  the universe could have rotated for a while, which would be billions before the micro measurement around the sun

The sad truth is that the public has images of loaders pushing & lifting crippled cows into trailers any time they hear the word... "feedlot".  this is probably more of a motivator for niche beef than anything.  truth is, grass farmers have old cows they need to get rid of too at some point.  with dairy, the decay is probably just a lot faster.  ask kit pharo what the oldest cow looked like he sent to the packer that went to the packer rather than someone else.

all segments have their dirty little secrets.  it's like "grassfed" beef animals breed by some magic and never reach middle age.  this is a marketing weakness that at some point will bite back.


lie intentionally  the pathway to rectify this when it's the government is almost as arcane as industry, witness MTBE.

Common sense tells me that anytime you add something that isn't natural to something, it's not going to be as good for you... period!!    this just isn't supported by any evidence anywhere. 

_____________
Just to be clear, i am not against grass fed beef, or even trying to make it the same product as regular beef with different inputs, as i'm doing something similar with a mixed grass/grain to finish

 

[LazyGLowlines]

You can say what you want about grass-finished vs grain finished. The bottom line is, corn is not good for ruminants or humans. That's a fact.  Corn-finished beef is not good for humans, PERIOD.  That's a fact that will be substantiated by any heart surgeon. Ranchers weren't even feeding corn to their cattle until the 1940's when we had a glut on corn, and then the government subsided the ranchers so they had cheap feed.  Doesn't anyone wonder why the U.S. has this fascination with corn?  I sure do, 'cause it's mostly sugar and starch, and neither is good for us. Corn by-products are found in most of our processed foods.  It's almost impossible to avoid it. 

Grass-finished products, beef, chickens, pork, have taken off because the U.S. consumer sees the pictures that TJ mentioned, plus girls are maturing at earlier and earlier ages.  Some consumers are leary of eating something that's been chemically altered with growth hormones, so they look for a more natural product.  I suspect that's why the organic market has become so popular.

We personally eat grass-finished beef that we raise ourselves and it's excellent!!!!

 

[simtal]

  Doesn't anyone wonder why the U.S. has this fascination with corn?  I sure do, 'cause it's mostly sugar and starch, and neither is good for us. 

Well hell, lets eat veggies then.

Suppose corn gives you cancer too right?

 

[shortyjock89]

Probably, what doesn't these days?

 

[simtal]

"She works with any grass-finished meat from responsible local producers,..."

Like people who raise beef any other way are not responsible?

The sad truth is that the public has images of loaders pushing & lifting crippled cows into trailers any time they hear the word... "feedlot".  You can be mad about the black eye, but videos of people pushing helpless "downer" cows into trailers was not good for public relations at all.  And the truth be told, even I try to only eat beef that we raise or someone that I know raised, because the truth is, you don't what you are getting, or even what country it comes from, if you don't. 

So rather than educate consumers what the real truth is, just look the other way?

"I raise beef, yeah grass-fed beef, but not that god-awful, corn-pumped, steroid ridden, toxic, cancerous, beef with bits of swampthing's recombinant DNA, Oh no."

 

[TJ]

it's amazing how easily people will overlook claims without facts to back them up if they fit what they want to believe.

ageing  a carcass at least one week no doubt plays some role, as does the age of a carcass.  on the other hand, you can't blame someone for supplying what people want to believe in.  there are many outlets that don't feed hormones, not just grass fed beef.  the grass fed beef out here is over 2 years old at slaughterk and pretty much terrible (YES I KNOW YOU NEED TO COOK IT AT A LOWER TEMP).  i'm guessing it is mandatory to age the carcass.   these feel good marketing strategies are susceptible to the placebo effect backfiring at some point.

FWIW, some of the grass finishers that I know are now finishing steers in 16-18 months.  It's learning curve learning to finish steers properly on grass.  

I've eaten grass finished beef quite a few times & it is awful good!  Both steaks & hamburger.  I'm sure some of it is not, just like some grain fed beef isn't worth feeding to your dog.  FWIW,  I ate a cheesburger at a little truck stop in Kansas one time & quickly realized that you can indeed eat a terrible cheeseburger... didn't think it was possible until that day, but it is!!  Like with grain fed, breed of the animal plays a huge role.  I've never eaten any grass fed beef that wasn't from a Lowline and I bet that is the difference.    

 

 

 

[LazyGLowlines]

Well hell, lets eat veggies then.
Vegegables are good for us...whether you like them or not!!!!

Suppose corn gives you cancer too right?
I don't recall stating that it would give you any disease. However obesity and heart disease come to mind when it comes to foods high in Omega 6. 

 

[knabe]

some of these arguments are using the exception rather than the rule for one side of the argument, and then using the best case scenario for the other side.  there's room for everyone.  it's probably worth doing more in the larger picture to address the dairy industry within the beef pipeline than it is to argue about grass fed fat versus corn fed fat as a way to sell more beef in general, as the goal of the antagonists of beef or meat is always to eliminate it, rather than just improve welfare.

also, there's sugar in grass that gets utilized the same way as the sugar in the corn and grass fed farmers time their pasture rotation based on finishing them when sugar content is highest, so this is kind of a silly argument.  sugar is sugar, well not really, there's glucose, sucrose, fructose etc.  also, there is grain in the seed heads of the grass, so there's sugar there too.  this is one reason why i am experimenting with the high sugar grass. 

probably the best change to raising cattle will be to let the cows do the moving to get to feed rather than moving the feed to the cattle.

Out here in CA, many local ranchers are cutting waaaaaaaaay back on their stocking rates, as we've had a drought for basically 10-12 years now.  the only real change that would be beneficial, would be that land prices would come down, as the appropriate stocking rates no longer substantiate land prices that won't generate a profit and new producers can enter the market.  CA lost 1000 farms the last two years.  something has to give.