Asterik free Shorthorn X Lincoln Red! Whats the scoop?

[Cabanha Santa Isabel - BR]

I know Sarah Pedelty. She raises LR in USA.
Both breeds are not mixing again.

 

[matt999]

Hill Haven Bold 4X is a DF Gold Eagle 0019 son (purebred Shorthorn) out of a registered Lincoln red cow. He adds tons of middle and thickness to his calves doesn't seem to throw the Lincoln hair though. His full brother is pictured above in Docs post. His dam lived to be 17 years of age and we flushed her every 5 months for 2 years and she always produced at least 6 embryos or more. If I could find another Lincoln red cow like her would buy it in a heartbeat.

 

[beebe]

Can you tell me his frame score?  Please tell me more about lincoln red hair.  Do you have any information about his tenderness?

 

[beebe]

Anyone using Lincoln Reds yet for volume? I'm using a Red Galloway, but Lincoln Reds are more authentic.

Would you define authentic?

 

[matt999]

Hill Haven Bold 4X is a frame score 6. There hair is very thick but tends to get curly and wavey as it gets longer in length. Don't know about his tenderness we sold him as a calf to Sullivan farms who later sold him to Don Cagwin. We are still using him through AI.

 

[aj]

I have heard that there was Durham blood incorporated into the Angus cattle in the old country. If this was true I wonder % that might have been? 10%?

 

[librarian]

Anyone using Lincoln Reds yet for volume? I'm using a Red Galloway, but Lincoln Reds are more authentic.

Would you define authentic?

By authentic I mean truthful to an old Shorthorn type that imparted some of the same characteristics one might achieve with a Galloway cross. For example, capacity, deep color, polled trait. Amos Cruickshank went to Lincolnshire to aquire several of his foundation cows for developing a more compact type with more barrel- same as a Galloway cross would do without " cheating"..."Little is known about the history of Lincolnshire cattle before Markham’s book of 1695. During the late eighteenth and early nineteenth centuries a number of Lincolnshire breeders, most notably Thomas Turnell, brought in cherry-red Durham and York shorthorn bulls and heifers of medium size, some from the well-known herds of Robert Bakewell and the Collings brothers. These animals were crossed with the local large, rugged draught cows to improve conformation. The resulting cattle soon became known as the Lincolnshire Red Shorthorn. In 1799 the breed was described by the Board of Agriculture as ‘a breed of cattle which are unsurpassed in this country for points highly valuable." http://www.lincolnshirelife.co.uk/posts/view/lincoln-red-cattle

 

[librarian]

I should have clarified that the question was directed at Shorthorn producers

 

[JPS]

In 2011 a study was published from Missouri using the Illumina 50K test.  The new genomic profile tests showed that the Lincoln Red is very closely related to both the Native Shorthorn and the Milking Shorthorn.  And Lincoln Red is also more closely related than the Irish Shorthorns and the Maine.  In fact some of the Shorthorn sires tested were extreme outliers. Based on all the comments on questioning the heritage of some bulls, this makes sense.  Because of this information, Bert Moore approved that the Lincoln Reds could come into the US Shorthorn pedigree as 100% Shorthorn.

 

[phillse]

JPS
is this the study http://www.lincolnred.org/uploads/3/4/2/4/34246345/2011_fall_dna_study.pdf

This looks like a short write up or summary for a magazine.  It would be interesting to read the detailed study.

Did they study relationships between other breeds as well?

 

[mark tenenbaum]

3842639-GB Spiffy I would like to have seen this bull-Claydene Everready x a Lazy D HL Quane cow. Hes the sire of GB Daybreak Expresses  dam.Express was a bull ahead of his time JMO O0

 

[JPS]

I believe it was part of a larger body of work that they were doing on multiple beef breeds.  I assume your copy is the same pdf file that I downloaded.  I knew of the study and had to do a google search to find it several years ago, but I don't think my copy came from the Lincoln Red newsletter.  I might have found it in a conference proceedings.

I have seen some of the Lincoln Red cows at Jim Murray's herd and a few in Dennis Hoffrogge's herd.  They definitely have something to offer in a breeding program.  They are a dark cherry red and many of them have lots of volume.  That's probably not a big enough sample size to make a bold statement, but I do have a half Lincoln Red daughter that I bought from Dennis, and I love her volume and rib shape.  She was crossed with a beautiful uddered Haumont cow, and her udder is darn near perfect too.  Unfortunately, she keeps having bull calves.

 

[mark tenenbaum]

I believe it was part of a larger body of work that they were doing on multiple beef breeds.  I assume your copy is the same pdf file that I downloaded.  I knew of the study and had to do a google search to find it several years ago, but I don't think my copy came from the Lincoln Red newsletter.  I might have found it in a conference proceedings.

I have seen some of the Lincoln Red cows at Jim Murray's herd and a few in Dennis Hoffrogge's herd.  They definitely have something to offer in a breeding program.  They are a dark cherry red and many of them have lots of volume.  That's probably not a big enough sample size to make a bold statement, but I do have a half Lincoln Red daughter that I bought from Dennis, and I love her volume and rib shape.  She was crossed with a beautiful uddered Haumont cow, and her udder is darn near perfect too.  Unfortunately, she keeps having bull calves./// Get a good bull calf and use him-That"s how cattle are proven useful JMO

 

[librarian]

I'm still working on Galloway Shorthorn crosses. Thanks for the research help. I'm going to use this bull next year, x4253260. 50% Lincoln Red 50% Native, along with a real beefy Galloway Synthetic Minn Max son.

 

[aj]

There are crossbred cattle that are purer than non-asterick purebred Shorthorns. Now with dna technology the funny stuff will probably be curtailed.

 

[librarian]

Some commercial cattle, certainly, are genetically purer than some registered purebreds....but crossbred cattle are impure by definition. One may say a crossbreed individual is more true to purpose or type than a purebred individual...but that is just weighted recombination. Or, so I think. Improvement either comes from concentrating desired breed traits or by combining complementary breed traits. I just believe one can do both.

 

[Cabanha Santa Isabel - BR]

I would consider using a Lincoln Red bull if he was not Shorthorn Plus status. I believe it would be a better deal than the Red aNGUS thing.

The Lincoln Reds I saw 30+ years ago at Pleasant Valley in Brandon Iowa were the real deal. They were just the wrong side of the road for the 70's-80's trend.

LR are better option when compare to red Aberdeen Angus. Easy fleshing, good weight gain very docile.
They never become dwarves, always kept a good size.

 

[Cabanha Santa Isabel - BR]

Looks like Lincoln Reds are polled with a dark red color. I wasn't really aware of them. One thing about the Durham Reds is they have various shades of red. From orange to a darker red. I would think that orange would be less desirable. I think the Durham Reds need to be taken directly to the commercial people. They won't work in the showring.

Yes, they are deep red.
Horned or polled, mostly the cattle today are polled.
Polled with Aberdeen Angus infusion on 40's and 50's.

 

[Cabanha Santa Isabel - BR]

From what I have read and from DNA work, American Shorthorns and Lincoln Reds are both decendents of Durham Shorthorns.

Lincoln Red were form from red Shorthorn from Booth line.
Used under big local cow from Lincolnshire. This cows had some dutch blood.
Of course all run on 1800.