BEST RED SIMMENTAL BULL ON THE PLANET

[dixieland cattle co]

Are we seriously talking about epds and API on a website called steerplanet. If you make your breeding decision based on numbers, what do you do when they change from spring to fall? Can you go back and rebreed them? Ask the Angus boys what happens when you breed cattle based on numbers. Hell ASA didn't even have a API number until a few years ago. I am not making breeding decisions on a basically unproven made up number. Sorry couldn't help myself.

 

[Simmgal]

Are we seriously talking about epds and API on a website called steerplanet. If you make your breeding decision based on numbers, what do you do when they change from spring to fall? Can you go back and rebreed them? Ask the Angus boys what happens when you breed cattle based on numbers. Hell ASA didn't even have a API number until a few years ago. I am not making breeding decisions on a basically unproven made up number. Sorry couldn't help myself.

Well, not all of us show steers, me being one of them.  I have breeding cattle that I try to breed to bulls that are proven so that their numbers are accurate. I think that the problem arises when people breed to unproven bulls and expect the EPD's to stay the same when their accuracy is .26. If you breed to PROVEN bulls, then there is a higher chance of a PROVEN number and it isn't as much of a guess. EPD's are just a tool to help determine the difference between individuals. The balance is looking at a combination of numbers, phenotype and pedigree. Nothing with animals is 100%, so it helps to have a tool that can help with breeding and selection decisions. Just my 2 cents... ;D

 

[RyanChandler]

Are we seriously talking about epds and API on a website called steerplanet. If you make your breeding decision based on numbers, what do you do when they change from spring to fall? Can you go back and rebreed them? Ask the Angus boys what happens when you breed cattle based on numbers. Hell ASA didn't even have a API number until a few years ago. I am not making breeding decisions on a basically unproven made up number. Sorry couldn't help myself.

That's the key- to distinguish between epds of high acc animals and those of the unproven.

 

[kfacres]

Are we seriously talking about epds and API on a website called steerplanet. If you make your breeding decision based on numbers, what do you do when they change from spring to fall? Can you go back and rebreed them? Ask the Angus boys what happens when you breed cattle based on numbers. Hell ASA didn't even have a API number until a few years ago. I am not making breeding decisions on a basically unproven made up number. Sorry couldn't help myself.

Well, not all of us show steers, me being one of them.  I have breeding cattle that I try to breed to bulls that are proven so that their numbers are accurate. I think that the problem arises when people breed to unproven bulls and expect the EPD's to stay the same when their accuracy is .26. If you breed to PROVEN bulls, then there is a higher chance of a PROVEN number and it isn't as much of a guess. EPD's are just a tool to help determine the difference between individuals. The balance is looking at a combination of numbers, phenotype and pedigree. Nothing with animals is 100%, so it helps to have a tool that can help with breeding and selection decisions. Just my 2 cents... ;D

watch yourself--  people always remind me this is STEER planet.. not breeding stock world...  I've been yelled at plenty of times for talking about real world cattle... <beer> <deadhorse>

 

[Simmgal]

Are we seriously talking about epds and API on a website called steerplanet. If you make your breeding decision based on numbers, what do you do when they change from spring to fall? Can you go back and rebreed them? Ask the Angus boys what happens when you breed cattle based on numbers. Hell ASA didn't even have a API number until a few years ago. I am not making breeding decisions on a basically unproven made up number. Sorry couldn't help myself.

Well, not all of us show steers, me being one of them.   I have breeding cattle that I try to breed to bulls that are proven so that their numbers are accurate. I think that the problem arises when people breed to unproven bulls and expect the EPD's to stay the same when their accuracy is .26. If you breed to PROVEN bulls, then there is a higher chance of a PROVEN number and it isn't as much of a guess. EPD's are just a tool to help determine the difference between individuals. The balance is looking at a combination of numbers, phenotype and pedigree. Nothing with animals is 100%, so it helps to have a tool that can help with breeding and selection decisions. Just my 2 cents... ;D

watch yourself--  people always remind me this is STEER planet.. not breeding stock world...  I've been yelled at plenty of times for talking about real world cattle... <beer> <deadhorse>

Haha, thanks Jody. I'll go the the lamb and hog forums on STEER planet now!  ;D Just Kidding, forgive me, I couldn't resist!  (lol)

Dixieland, I don't mean to sound rude or start a fignt or anything to you, just putting my 2 cents in  ;D  <beer>

Now, back to the bull. He looks like a big boy! I'll say that he looks pretty good from what I can tell in the small picture  ;D

 

[ALTSIMMY 79]

Last time i checked we were evaulating a purebred simmy bull so yes epds are important ! Are there millions of showsteers around the country sired by red pb simmy bulls ? Probably not ! There are breeders of every kind and breed on this web site and personally i like that ! Ive quietly read in on many pb shorthorn discussions on here and learned some things about the breed / bloodlines that ive found very interesting and 95 percent of them had nothing to do with show steers ! The great females are the ones that make the great show steers so dont forget that !!!

 

[dixieland cattle co]

Accurate epd's are like, Honest Attorney's or Pretty Fat Girls, they don't exist.  (lol)  Epd's change every time new information is reported back to ASA. The problem is that the information being reported is always inaccurate and in some cases just flat dishonest.  So my question to you is, How can  epd's ever be proven or accurate if the information being used to figure them is inaccurate and unproven.  The other things breeders always forget to figure about epd's are "Environment and Management"  If I creep all my calves and grain all my cows every day, my BW WW YW MM API will be totally different than a breeder who doesn't.  So how does that effect your accuracy?   Epd's are simply a tool that help people market ugly cattle. JUST MY 2 CENTS.   (lol)

Are we seriously talking about epds and API on a website called steerplanet. If you make your breeding decision based on numbers, what do you do when they change from spring to fall? Can you go back and re breed them? Ask the Angus boys what happens when you breed cattle based on numbers. Hell ASA didn't even have a API number until a few years ago. I am not making breeding decisions on a basically unproven made up number. Sorry couldn't help myself.

Well, not all of us show steers, me being one of them.   I have breeding cattle that I try to breed to bulls that are proven so that their numbers are accurate. I think that the problem arises when people breed to unproven bulls and expect the EPD's to stay the same when their accuracy is .26. If you breed to PROVEN bulls, then there is a higher chance of a PROVEN number and it isn't as much of a guess. EPD's are just a tool to help determine the difference between individuals. The balance is looking at a combination of numbers, phenotype and pedigree. Nothing with animals is 100%, so it helps to have a tool that can help with breeding and selection decisions. Just my 2 cents... ;D

 

[kfacres]

Accurate epd's are like, Honest Attorney's or Pretty Fat Girls, they don't exist.  (lol)  Epd's change every time new information is reported back to ASA. The problem is that the information being reported is always inaccurate and in some cases just flat dishonest.  So my question to you is, How can  epd's ever be proven or accurate if the information being used to figure them is inaccurate and unproven.  The other things breeders always forget to figure about epd's are "Environment and Management"  If I creep all my calves and grain all my cows every day, my BW WW YW MM API will be totally different than a breeder who doesn't.  So how does that effect your accuracy?   Epd's are simply a tool that help people market ugly cattle. JUST MY 2 CENTS.   (lol)

Are we seriously talking about epds and API on a website called steerplanet. If you make your breeding decision based on numbers, what do you do when they change from spring to fall? Can you go back and re breed them? Ask the Angus boys what happens when you breed cattle based on numbers. Hell ASA didn't even have a API number until a few years ago. I am not making breeding decisions on a basically unproven made up number. Sorry couldn't help myself.

Well, not all of us show steers, me being one of them.   I have breeding cattle that I try to breed to bulls that are proven so that their numbers are accurate. I think that the problem arises when people breed to unproven bulls and expect the EPD's to stay the same when their accuracy is .26. If you breed to PROVEN bulls, then there is a higher chance of a PROVEN number and it isn't as much of a guess. EPD's are just a tool to help determine the difference between individuals. The balance is looking at a combination of numbers, phenotype and pedigree. Nothing with animals is 100%, so it helps to have a tool that can help with breeding and selection decisions. Just my 2 cents... ;D

you obviously have no schooling, or serious knowledge of EPDs or how they are generated.  EPD's are made available to the producers, by the breed associations, or a hired professional-- to be able to successfully compare cattle in the same breed, same breeding program- and somewhat the same breed composites while taking all other non measurable adjectives out of the equation. 

seriously, that's about the dumbest post I've ever read- and i've wrote and read plenty of them.

 

[LN]

The ASA even instituted a new policy last year that if data submitted by producers looks too good to be true, then it will be thrown out of the genetic evaluation.

And there is such a thing as accurate EPDs when thousands of progeny from almost as many producers is reported.

 

[firesweepranch]

The ASA even instituted a new policy last year that if data submitted by producers looks too good to be true, then it will be thrown out of the genetic evaluation.

And there is such a thing as accurate EPDs when thousands of progeny from almost as many producers is reported.

I'm right there with you LN! We report ACCURATE numbers on our animals, to lie would just blow up in our face later down the road. We produce seed stock, not show steers. Numbers are VERY important to us. It is not the only tool we use, but when we use 100% AI, they are extremely important. The family that got us involved in this wonderful breed taught us about honesty and how important it is! They sell August 31st calves just as much as September calves, and both are good! They even had an August heifer (600 U breeding) place in the top 20 at Nationals in Missouri this last year, just to prove she could win on her own merits! I have met too many people with this breed that are just that, open and honest. It is harder to keep track of lies than being honest from day one!
Sorry Dixieland, but your suspicion of the ASA EPD's makes me wonder how honest you are on your reporting of numbers. Considering you are promoting a bull yourself, I'd be careful.

 

[dixieland cattle co]

First of all I have been breeding Simmental Cattle since the 1980's.  I had one of the first Black Simmental herds east of the Mississippi. So excuse me if I am speaking from past experience of the breed and how epd's are figured.  I find it hard to believe, that so many breeders have so much faith in EPD's when they are constantly changing.  Some of the best cows I have ever owned, milked more and raised the heaviest calves, also had some of the worst epd's. Go figure. If you breed or buy cattle based on Epd's what do you do when they change? If someone  pays a premium for your calves because they have good numbers and then this fall their numbers go to ****, what are you going to say, when that person calls you? I mean seriously numbers are not what it's all about. The Angus breeders started chasing carcass numbers and look what they ended up with. A gene pool so damn small that every genetic defect possible started showing up.  I would love to think that breeding great cattle, was as simple as checking epd's but that's just not the truth. And please "Fire Sweep Ranch" DO NOT EVER QUESTION MY HONESTY, you do not know me and I do not know you. It would be very naive of you or I to try to gather an accurate opinion of each others character from a message board.  Much like trying to get an accurate appraisal of breeding cattle based solely on epd's. (clapping)

The ASA even instituted a new policy last year that if data submitted by producers looks too good to be true, then it will be thrown out of the genetic evaluation.

And there is such a thing as accurate EPDs when thousands of progeny from almost as many producers is reported.

I'm right there with you LN! We report ACCURATE numbers on our animals, to lie would just blow up in our face later down the road. We produce seed stock, not show steers. Numbers are VERY important to us. It is not the only tool we use, but when we use 100% AI, they are extremely important. The family that got us involved in this wonderful breed taught us about honesty and how important it is! They sell August 31st calves just as much as September calves, and both are good! They even had an August heifer (600 U breeding) place in the top 20 at Nationals in Missouri this last year, just to prove she could win on her own merits! I have met too many people with this breed that are just that, open and honest. It is harder to keep track of lies than being honest from day one!
Sorry Dixieland, but your suspicion of the ASA EPD's makes me wonder how honest you are on your reporting of numbers. Considering you are promoting a bull yourself, I'd be careful.

 

[dixieland cattle co]

I wonder why the ASA had to institute a new policy, if everyone was reporting ACCURATE and HONEST INFORMATION? Please check the herd books at ASA, there are only a hand full of bulls in breed history to have ever had 1000's of progeny reported. Most bulls are well under.  <party>

The ASA even instituted a new policy last year that if data submitted by producers looks too good to be true, then it will be thrown out of the genetic evaluation.

And there is such a thing as accurate EPDs when thousands of progeny from almost as many producers is reported.

 

[dixieland cattle co]

I think the quote "you obviously have no schooling"  pretty well sums up all I wanted to say. Thanks (lol)

Accurate epd's are like, Honest Attorney's or Pretty Fat Girls, they don't exist.  (lol)  Epd's change every time new information is reported back to ASA. The problem is that the information being reported is always inaccurate and in some cases just flat dishonest.  So my question to you is, How can  epd's ever be proven or accurate if the information being used to figure them is inaccurate and unproven.  The other things breeders always forget to figure about epd's are "Environment and Management"  If I creep all my calves and grain all my cows every day, my BW WW YW MM API will be totally different than a breeder who doesn't.  So how does that effect your accuracy?   Epd's are simply a tool that help people market ugly cattle. JUST MY 2 CENTS.   (lol)

Are we seriously talking about epds and API on a website called steerplanet. If you make your breeding decision based on numbers, what do you do when they change from spring to fall? Can you go back and re breed them? Ask the Angus boys what happens when you breed cattle based on numbers. Hell ASA didn't even have a API number until a few years ago. I am not making breeding decisions on a basically unproven made up number. Sorry couldn't help myself.

Well, not all of us show steers, me being one of them.   I have breeding cattle that I try to breed to bulls that are proven so that their numbers are accurate. I think that the problem arises when people breed to unproven bulls and expect the EPD's to stay the same when their accuracy is .26. If you breed to PROVEN bulls, then there is a higher chance of a PROVEN number and it isn't as much of a guess. EPD's are just a tool to help determine the difference between individuals. The balance is looking at a combination of numbers, phenotype and pedigree. Nothing with animals is 100%, so it helps to have a tool that can help with breeding and selection decisions. Just my 2 cents... ;D

you obviously have no schooling, or serious knowledge of EPDs or how they are generated.  EPD's are made available to the producers, by the breed associations, or a hired professional-- to be able to successfully compare cattle in the same breed, same breeding program- and somewhat the same breed composites while taking all other non measurable adjectives out of the equation. 

seriously, that's about the dumbest post I've ever read- and i've wrote and read plenty of them.

 

[kfacres]

you know those little numbers usually right behind, or under the EPD, those are called accuracy numbers- they mean something. 

 

[LN]

I wonder why the ASA had to institute a new policy, if everyone was reporting ACCURATE and HONEST INFORMATION? Please check the herd books at ASA, there are only a hand full of bulls in breed history to have ever had 1000's of progeny reported. Most bulls are well under.  <party>

The ASA even instituted a new policy last year that if data submitted by producers looks too good to be true, then it will be thrown out of the genetic evaluation.

And there is such a thing as accurate EPDs when thousands of progeny from almost as many producers is reported.

I never said everyone reports honest and accurate data, I'd be a fool if I believed that. I just said the ASA is weeding out the data that looks "too good to be true" to calculate EPDs.

 

[Pleasant Grove Farms]

Dixieland Cattle,
I find it interesting that you order someone "not to question your honesty"......

I have a son who is an attorney and I found your statement that all attorneys
are dishonest to be insulting.......very insulting in fact.

if you wanna talk Simmis, my family has been raising Simmis since 1969;
my dad was one of the "pioneers" of the breed.

I do believe that EPD's are useful; when the milk number on two very much used
bulls.....Dominique and Desperado....are very poor after this many years and the
accuracy that they reflect; that is the TRUTH; there maybe a few exceptions;
but it will be true way more often than not.

I am not bashing those two bulls; we even used 5 units of Dominique last summer; not saying these bulls don't have a place; if I have a red dilutor cow whose milk numbers are over +10 and she is growthy herself and would benefit from a bull that can add the style and "look" that Dominique can give,
I don't have any problems using him.

However, some pple have a problem using a bull with such negative numbers, or don't have a suitable cow to use him on and that is their own choice; I never have a problem with ppl doing what they need to do.

 

[Simmgal]

So Dixieland, do you check the Calving Ease and Birth Weight EPD's of bulls that you are going to breed your heifers to?

 

[LN]

So Dixieland, do you check the Calving Ease and Birth Weight EPD's of bulls that you are going to breed your heifers to?

<rock>

 

[dixieland cattle co]

So Dixieland, do you check the Calving Ease and Birth Weight EPD's of bulls that you are going to breed your heifers to?

NO I do not. I never AI to bulls I have never seen in person or I have at least seen their dams. I base my breeding decisions on visual appraisals. Never on epds.

 

[kfacres]

So Dixieland, do you check the Calving Ease and Birth Weight EPD's of bulls that you are going to breed your heifers to?

NO I do not. I never AI to bulls I have never seen in person or I have at least seen their dams. I base my breeding decisions on visual appraisals. Never on epds.

well... you are from teeeeeeeeeeeennnnnnnnnneeeeeeeeeeeeessssssssssssssssssssseeeeeeeeeeeeee

things can get a little backwards down there...

keep that dern hoot owl out of the hen house, even if the hens don't care.